Hey guys after successful treatement of my engine I'm preparing for a transmission fluid change in my Jaguar XK8.
Anyone that knows the car probably is aware that it has a 'sealed for life' gearbox which is absolute rubbish since ATF can burn & get contaminated no matter if sealed. So with mine at 88k miles
Now here's the problem...the car has no dipstick and the only way to get ARX (or indeed new fluid) into the trans is to inject it. This means that I will have to pay somone with specialist equipment to put the ARX in (naturally at my risk) and then follow the treatment procedure.
Anyone used ARX in this type of application? Also I'm in the UK and very few places have the equipment to circulate the new transmission through the torque converter and flush out the old fluid held there. This means that when time comes to drain and refill with new fluid there will still be around 3-4 quarts of old ATF and ARX in the torque convertor which will mix with the new fluid and stay in sealed.
Does this present any problems or would you recommend not using ARX in this AT at all?
Regards
Mark PS: My XK8 is now converted to run on LPG (you call it Propane stateside) and I get over 300 miles out of a £20 ($38) when normally it would cost me £43 ($82) on unleaded...engine runs a lot quieter! PPS: Am also running Royal Purple 5w30 which quietened things even more.
Have you gone to a "Quick Oil Change" ? and ask them to do a transmission fluid change if they send you to Jaguar than there is no way to effectively use Auto-Rx in your transmission.
Frank, we in the UK aren't blessed with 'quick lube' places you have stateside. Indeed I've only found one place that suctions your transmission out (insuring that the torque convertor is empty) and they are 250 miles away.
Yes I can get a local Jag specialist to inject the ARX in and then take it back to them for the full fluid change & filter/'o' ring after the treament interval. However, they don't suction out so i'll still be left with around 3-4 quarts of old fluid with the ARX treatment left in the the torque convertor).
Alternative is that i get the local place to inject and then to the place 250 miles away for the drain and refill.
Note: my transmission uses ESSO ATF LT 71141 which from a Jag main dealer (in the UK) is £30 a litre. I think for the full flush I'll need 15l
Fortunately I've managed to purchase 15l for a mere £30 ($55) from an XK8 owner who has upgraded to an XKR (they have different transmissions so saved myself over £400 ($800USD:)
I have now found an auto tran specialist nearer to me (30 miles) with a 'Megaflow' which uses vacuum to remove fluid from the torque convertor.
If you read the reply from Frank he doesn't actually say not to do it and, unless I hear from him otherwise, I'm going to pay my local jaguar place to inject the ARX into my transmission before going to the megaflow place to get changed after the prescriibed mileage has been covered.
There are a lot of ZF boxes out there but few that have no dipstick like my XK8
Hello Mark if you can remove all fluid after 1000 miles of Auto-Rx in your transmission clean the torque converter and refill with new fluid, do the application. Ask them about how there machine protects your transmission seals you don't want a PSI that will damage seals.
If there is any mumble jumble don't do the application.
What is the capacity of this unit again? Does it have a filter? I might be tempted to change the fluid 'bare' the 1st time w/o suctioning out & run it for 3-5k miles & then do another drain without the suctioning but adding the ARX.
Ben, the capacity of the ZF unit is 10l (11 quarts to you) however the transmission fluid (Esso ATF LT 71141) costs £34 a litre (!!??) from Jaguar dealers in the UK ($60 per litre in your money).
Luckily I purchased 15l of fluid from a previous XK8 owner (he'd upgraded to an XKR which has the MB trans). I've searched and I can buy it in 20l packs for £130 ($240) but as you can see even at the cheapest option it's a pretty expensive affair to be doing 2 x changes in short timescales and I would think a little pointless.
Frank i'll speak to them regarding PSI and post their response.
Frank no PSI involved as the 'MegaFlush' connects to the oil cooler pipes and it is the transmission pump the circulates the new fluid and purges the old from the TC with the engine running....I guess like a dialysis machine? this means that seals should be fine.
Ben, the capacity of the ZF unit is 10l (11 quarts to you) however the transmission fluid (Esso ATF LT 71141) costs £34 a litre (!!??) from Jaguar dealers in the UK ($60 per litre in your money).
Luckily I purchased 15l of fluid from a previous XK8 owner (he'd upgraded to an XKR which has the MB trans). I've searched and I can buy it in 20l packs for £130 ($240) but as you can see even at the cheapest option it's a pretty expensive affair to be doing 2 x changes in short timescales and I would think a little pointless.
Frank i'll speak to them regarding PSI and post their response.
Mark, other manufacturers of ATF such as Pentosin carry the LT 71141 rating. Other ATF's include Amsoil ATF Mercon V ATF
Also, We Audi VW folk use a method of filling until the fluid starts to pour out of the trans., while the car is perfectly level and the temperature is monitored to between 30 and 45 centigrade. I've done this to both my Passat and A4, both with ZF transmissions without any problems.
My brother owns several express oil changes which uses valvoline oil and owns several BMW with a ZF trans. Valvoline sent him a letter stating that Valvoine maxlife ATF fluid will work find in that trans.
The megaflush guy should be able get the job done. If not, you can flush it out by first draining the system and pull the pan to clean and change the filter, if possible. After reassembled, refill the unit with however much it takes to start to overflow. Put fill plug beck in temporarily. Then somehow take a cooler line loose somewhere on the way to or back from the cooler and pump fluid out of this cooler line (by starting the engine) until the flow drops off. Shut off the engine immediatedly and then pump into the fill level hole whatever amount it takes to get it to begin to overflow again. (put the fill plug back in each time to keep the new fluid in there). Continue this painstaking cycle until the fluid coming out looks like the new stuff you are pumping in. The total amount of fluid that you will need is the amount your trans is said to hold, plus maybe a quart or 2. This is because there will be some mixing of the old and new within the torque converter as the new fluid makes its way throught the unit.
Yes, Maxlife or several other multi fluids are rated for this type and will work fine, but I prefer to use a higher quality fluid such as Amsoil or Mobil 1 on these types without a dipstick to pour fluid back in. It's a fair amount of trouble to have to pump all that fluid back in while under the vehicle, esp if you are not using a lift with an operater up there to start and stop the engine for you. The higher quality fluids will last 2-3 times longer in service.
Also. I would be very surprised if that ZF unit did not have an internal filter that could be changed. Every ZF unit I have seen does. It may also have a reuseable gasket.
BTW, to get the ARX in (before doing all the flush stuff above), you may need to lift the car up using only one drive-on ramp on the side of the vehicle where the fill hole for the AT is. Draining 6 oz of ATF out should not be necessary, but tilting the car/trans has worked out well for me on BMW's with similar setup to yours. After you get the 6 oz or so in there, drive it 1000 miles to let it clean things up. Then do the flush.
ok, I just noticed I'm a year late getting to this discussion as the posts were in Aug 2007! Oh well, just a year late. Wonder how he did with the Jag. Maybe my comments will help someone with a similar setup.
I have just sold some product to a Canadian Customer for use in an Audi with the automatic (ZF) transmission. I'll encourage him to post his experience on the board.
My sister traveled from Florida over a month ago and stopped to see us on her way up to see our dad and other family in Ohio. She drives a 97 BMW 740iL with a ZF transmission and about 160k miles on the original fluid. She said she had started noticing shifts were not as smooth and could even be abrupt at times. I had several other maintenance and repair items to attend to on this car, and in addition, we decided to service the transmission as well. "Lifetime fluid" as the manufacturer would like you to believe, is the expected lifetime, somewhere around 150k miles. I prefer to change these sooner, say around 100k miles, especially on the GM units in some BMW's.
Since she was also planning to come back through here on her way back to Florida, I decided to put the Auto-Rx in there to do some cleaning before servicing it with a fluid flush and new filter. The only way to get fluid into these units is the fill plug on the right side rear. When the engine is started, the fluid level should be right at this plug with the car sitting level. So to get the ARX in there, I had to raise the right side of the car up, leave the engine running, and put the 6 oz in using a squeeze bottle marked in ounces.
When she got back down here a month later, she had driven an additional 1200+ miles, so we were all set to do the ATF flush. Not surprisingly, she mentioned that it seemed to be shifting a lot better already. I raised the vehicle up evenly so it would be level, and then drained and dropped the pan to clean it and change the filter. After the pan was reinstalled, I carefully took the cooler line loose (that returns the cooled fluid back to the transmission), and put a clear plastic sleeve up around the fitting, securing it with a tie strap. Then I directed this sleeve down into the drain pan.
Next, I pumped nearly 4 quarts of Amsoil ATF into the fill hole until it started to drip out there, and put the plug back in. Then my assitant started the engine and held the brake pedal while he shifted slowly through the diffferent gears while in manual mode. The idea here is to push as much new fluid into every hydraulic circuit possible, moving as much of the old fluid out and into the drain pan. When the flow slowed considerably, I hollered to him to shut it off and refilled with approx 2 quarts until overflow this time. We continued with this process for several cycles until the fluid coming down the clear sleeve looked like the fluid I was pumping in. In this case, it took several quarts more than the specified capacity of this unit to accomplish this thorough of a flush (probably the only service it will ever see).
Next, I reconnected the fluid cooler return line back to the transmission and then refilled the unit again. Then he started it up again, ran it through the gears one last time, and then while still running this time, I filled the unit one last time until overflow and then put the plug back in and tightened it this time. DONE! Checked for leaks, took for a test drive and it was shifting like a new one.
These transmissions with no dipstick are more time-consuming and messy to deal with because you have to PUMP the fluid in, 2 quarts at a time, instead of just pouring into a funnel 4 quarts at a time. But the results are worth the effort, and it is possible to keep one of these transmissions running well for a very long time!
-- Edited by bmwtechguy on Saturday 19th of September 2009 09:19:21 AM
