I finished the cleaning phase on my 2006 Liberty with 45k miles on the clock. My Jeep, bought used at 28k miles, consumed about 1 qt. every 600 miles with conventional 5w-30. I got it down to about 1 qt. every 1000 miles using Valvoline Maxlife 10w-30. Chrysler calls for 5w-30, but the oil consumption was way too high. I called in ARX as a last ditch effort to salvage the car.
My cleaning phase (2,735 miles) used about 2.5 quarts of SuperTech 10w-30. Now that the weather is cooling, I changed oil (and filter) with Blains Farm and Fleet conventional 5w-30 for the rinse phase. 5w-30 is the Chrysler recommended API grade for all seasons.
I am encouraged after 500 miles into the rinse phase with the thinner oil. The dipstick shows less than 1/2 qt. down.
Thanks for your help!
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
Thanks for the suggestion! I changed out the PCV valve just before I began the ARX clean phase. I am now on the rinse phase.
The connections, hoses, etc. for the PCV looked okay.
I couldn't get the dealer to do anything for me while under warranty except to monitor an oil "consumption test". That only confirmed that I had intervals of ~600 miles per quart of 5w-30 under their supervision. I suggested a PCV system inspection, but they did not do that to my knowledge. I replaced the PCV valve on my own. Of course, the warranty expired at 36K miles...
Best wishes,
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
Wasn't there a PCV valve recall on some Liberty Jeeps? I know the 2007 that I got last week used has a sticker under the hood saying PCV valve recall completed.
I've had the Liberty in for various dealer services over the past six months. I had asked specifically about the PCV system last fall. No recall information for me. There was a technical service bulletin about cold weather (sub-zero?) operation of several years of 3.7l motors. I was alerted to this TSB earlier in this thread. It applied if I had cold weather drivability issues, rough running, etc. I had asked about that and the my conversation with the service folks indicated that it did not apply to me.
I am due to have the plugs on my terrible "coils on plugs" replaced, and I will ask again.
Did Chrysler replace your filler "funnel" and some related plumbing to the air intake? That seemed to be part of the "kit" I declined to buy. My PCV apparently passes the medical glove test:
Place a medical glove over the oil filler. If the glove blows "out", there is blowby not handled by the PCV. If the gove is sucked "in", the PCV is working OK. Not definitive, but a good starter indication.
I am doing the second "rinse" with no ARX according to the recently revised oil burning instructions. I got the oil consumption down to ~ 1100 miles per quart at the end of the first "rinse" with Blains Farm and Fleet generic 5w-30. This is much better than the 600 miles per quart previously. I was doing 600 miles per quart even running 10w-30. Not good, but at least makes the car a candidate for a "keeper".
I will let you know if the recall applies to me.
Many thanks and best wishes for your purchase of your Liberty!
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
You may want to start with a maintenance dose of ARX with each oil change, after your rinse phase is complete. Add in 3 fluid ounces total with next oil change. If the consumption is due to poor ring to cylinder wall interaction the maintainance dose works well. I say this based on a 1998 Northstar motor. The wifes ride used to burn 2 quarts of oil in a 4000 mile oil change. Running the maintenance dose that was cut in half. This was observed over 80,000 miles. My best informed opinion was that the aliphatic esters in ARX helped form a better oil film strength between the the ring and wall interaction. Just my 2 cents.
I would be very pleased if my oil consumption improved to the ~ 2,000 miles per quart you obtained in your Northstar. I am running the second rinse per the recent "oil burning" instructions. I suppose that I may delay the maintenance dose if there is a chance that another round of ARX clean and rinse cycles may be indicated in my situation.
I cut open the filters from the clean and rinse cycles. Nothing remarkable there. I hope that the cleanup of the rings and perhaps the valve stem sealing material had done some good. My oil consumption improved from 600 miles per quart to ~1,100 miles per quart.
There was still oil available from the "add" line from the oil filter change and top off I did about 2,000 miles into the first "rinse" phase. Again, this was from the recently revised oil burning instructions.
Thanks for your encouragement!
-- Edited by Pointsnplugs on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 06:30:59 PM
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
I hope you do as well as I did with my daughter's college beater 91 Taurus. It's been since retired due to other issues, but a single Auto-Rx treatment reduced the consumption from (literally) hours of operation to months. The mileage would vary on her consumption, but it basically broke down to hours of running. If she was driving around college or town when home, it would take a couple of weeks ..or about the same time it took her to drive back to college. I'd peg it at about a quart every 4-5hours. It was reduced to about a quart ever 4-5 months. Radical change.
From other posts on this site, I'm not surprised that your daughter's Taurus had such a great improvement in oil consumption. My goals are more modest, but reaching a quart every 3,000 mile oil change would be fine with me!
Best wishes,
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
Wasn't there a PCV valve recall on some Liberty Jeeps? I know the 2007 that I got last week used has a sticker under the hood saying PCV valve recall completed.
stamasd,
I visited the Jeep dealer yesterday who sold me my Liberty to ask again about the PCV system and related recalls. No recalls open for my car.
I replaced the PCV valve last October. I'll do it again after the second "oil burning instructions" rinse. That should be this spring when the weather is a lot warmer and I'll be less likely to break my fragile looking plastic PCV valve. $3 or $4 is cheap insurance at this point in time.
Best wishes,
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
The PCV issue you refer to is NOT a recall .... it is a TSB (technical service bulletin). My wife has a 2002 Liberty, and I bought the Chrysler kit & did the TSB myself in about an hour or less. Hardest part was getting the old oil fill spout off the car due the the way heater hoses are routed there.
My advice - either pay the dealer to do the TSB or do it yourself. If you need the TSB number, I can find it. For that matter, I can fax you a copy if you'd like.
PCV valves & oil consumption issues many times go hand in hand.
The PCV issue you refer to is NOT a recall .... it is a TSB (technical service bulletin). My wife has a 2002 Liberty, and I bought the Chrysler kit & did the TSB myself in about an hour or less. Hardest part was getting the old oil fill spout off the car due the the way heater hoses are routed there.
My advice - either pay the dealer to do the TSB or do it yourself. If you need the TSB number, I can find it. For that matter, I can fax you a copy if you'd like.
PCV valves & oil consumption issues many times go hand in hand.
market525,
I agree that the PCV difficulty with the 3.7l Liberty is a TSB as I discussed in my January 19, 2010 post to stamasd and my October 29, 2009 post to onthefritz8. The kit and dealer installation were together about $ 200+. The Jeep TSB verbage related to cold weather drivability did not seem to apply to me. In my case, there is much PCV plumbing and many, many cables to remove. Also, in my case, heavy heater hoses/angled metal lines are routed with an odd connector in front of the oil funnel. For me, the oil burning seems to be less in cold weather and greater in warm/hot weather.
In your case, market525, did the PCV system upgrade on your 2002 reduce oil burning? On the other hand, did you deal with the TSB for cold weather driving? If related to oil consumption, I would be encouraged to know how much it improved.
My son's 2002 Liberty with 103k miles (bought new) burns no oil between changes. That includes living in Auburn, AL, Charleston, SC and upstate New York among other climates on the east coast<g>! His PCV system is original.
Under warranty (bought used) the dealer did not do any PCV inspection at my suggestion when I made the oil burning complaint (600 miles per quart). That was a real fight at the time. Chrysler stated that up to 500 miles per quart was satisfactory. Shortly thereafter, my warranty expired and Chrysler went into reorganization. I do not wish to get deeply involved there if other alternatives exist.
I restate all of this not to put you on the spot, market525, but rather to be cautious regarding jumping into a tempest with Chrysler. I am grateful for any light you can shed on this.
I believe I still have the TSB number somewhere. If it makes sense to pursue this, I will take you up on your generous offer for your TSB information.
Best wishes and thanks for being such a good sport!
-- Edited by Pointsnplugs on Tuesday 26th of January 2010 09:23:20 AM
-- Edited by Pointsnplugs on Tuesday 26th of January 2010 04:53:14 PM
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
Pointsnplugs - sorry for the tardy response. I should check here more often!
Our Liberty has never had an oil burning issue. We purchased it new, and it now has 73K or so on it. I've been as many as 5K miles on an oil change a few years back (Amsoil 5w30) and I recall it barely moved on the stick in that time. I've since changed my oil change routine on her Liberty to twice per year, regardless of mileage -- and using what I feel is a high quality motor oil, Amsoil 5W30. She's only driving about 8-9K per year, with most of that being in colder months. We have another car that she uses frequently in the summer months.
When I read of the TSB, I inquired at the dealer .... who also quoted me about $200 - which I found absurd. When I get home from work today I will check my file on the Liberty ... but I think I paid less than $50 for the kit, including shipping.
I will say, as you've already pointed out, that installation was somewhat of a pain due to the metal heater hoses running by the oil fill spout. I did the TSB kit only due to cold weather (we live in Maine) and the fact that sometime in the colder weather I'd observe a "milky oil" type mixture inside of the oil fill cap area .... which I believe to be an oil & condensation mix. So I was not having any oil consumption issues ... only what I felt was a "potential" for PCV clogging due to the cold weather crud I described. The car is also subjected to many short trips during the week ... though it sees more miles on the weekends. The short trips and lack of attaining proper engine operating temperature concerned me more than anything .... so proper PCV valve placment and operation seemed critical.
I see no build up or discoloration in that area at all with the relocated PCV valve.
I think you're on the right track with the ARX treatments. Sounds to me like you're dealing with some coked up piston rings perhaps to less than stellar maintenance habits from the prior owner. I wonder if your car was a lease return? It seems to me that sometime cars like that aren't really maintained that well .... since the owner knows they are being turned back in 3-4 years.
Anyway ... send me a private message with your fax number if you'd like me to send you the printed TSB. No problem at all. Good luck; I think you're on the right track.
I recently finished the ARX rinse phase with my 2006 Jeep 3.7l. 3,023 miles on Blain's Farm and Fleet 5w-30 3 months elapsed time 46,371 miles, filter changed, added make-up oil 47,343 miles total 1,100 miles per quart (estimated)
I estimate that with the oil remaining in the sump, the consumption of 5w-30 over mixed city and highway driving was about 1,100 to 1,200 miles per quart. I began my ARX treatment with my Jeep using about 600 miles per quart of 5w-30.
I also believe that the oil consumption with highway driving was less than the short trip city driving. Perhaps this may be an effect up of oil slowly draining back from the top end and/or a valve guide/seal difficulty. However, I have no hard evidence for this opinion other than my understanding that highway driving puts on more miles with less time with the oil sitting in the top end.
This car alternates one week of mixed suburban/highway and one week of very short 1-3 mile trips. The Liberty can't warm up at all on these short drives during winter.
I have begun the "step 6" of the oil burning application. This is the second immediate follow-on rinse with no ARX. For this I am using 10w-30 Supertech. I added one half quart so far at 963 miles. There was still about 1/8" above ADD on the dispstick, but I did not want to risk running low on the several longer errands I will run this weekend. Based on my calibration of the dipstick, this consumption equaled 1,056 to 1091 miles per quart. This probably implies more accuracy than is justified by the measurements and observation.
QUESTION: Does anyone have an opinion for continuing the "step 6" follow-on rinse for the remaining 2000 miles of the oil change interval?
I hope this post can be of assistance to anyone starting out with ARX.
Best wishes,
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
Yes i do it takes a fair amount of oil to wash off the contaminant (after cleaning) laying on your inner engine oil lubricated parts and an oil rinse is the most effective method we have to finish removing them.
Look at it this way if you were washing clothes and took them out of the washer before the rinse cycle yes they would be clean don't think they would be comfortable to wear until rinsed.
Finish the 3000 mile rinse cycle. By the way please read the preventive maintenance plan. It is the heart of the program.
I was concerned that I might be better off going directly to another ARX clean cycle. Instead, I'll continue this "step 6" oil burning follow-on rinse for the rest of the oil change interval.
As you can tell from my previous posts, things are definitely looking up!
Best wishes,
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Pointsnplugs
1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0l, 109k miles 2006 Jeep Liberty 3.7l, 47k miles
