I have a 2005 Toyota Highlander 4 cyl. Prior to Auto RX usage oil would never go down on the dipstick between oil changes. Oil & filter were changed every 3,000 miles with 5w-30
At 95k miles I changed the oil and filter and added 1 12oz container of Auto RX. (clean) 98K - Oil and filter (rinse) 101k - Oil, filter, Auto RX (clean) 105k - Oil, filter (rinse)
So I am at 109k and I have consumed about 3/4 of a quart in 4k miles. I know that may not sound like a lot but I consumed NO OIL AT ALL before using Auto RX. Thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Also I am thinking about going synthetic but I know synthetic will not give the seals what they need to make a good seal again. Should I wait until I get the consumption under control? Is synthetic bad for seals?
Prior to using ARX you were doing 3,000 mile oil changes? Now you're doing 4,000 miles oil changes and you've noticed some consumption? It's been my experience that if an engine is going to consume oil that the rate of consumption goes up once the oil turns color.
Have you changed the brand of oil or weight from before? Has your type of driving changed -longer or shorter trips? Have you been changing your PCV valve on a regular basis?
Thanks for the info. I will pull back to 3k oil changes. Never thought of what you said. To answer your questions...
Always use Supertech oil. Except for when I have a garage change it but that has been rare. Maybe once in past 5 oil changes. Just changed PCV at 101k and about a year or so prior to that had changed it. Driving has remained fairly consistent.
What are your thoughts about synthetic? From what I have read they do not seem to help the seals "swell up" like conventional. I have been told your engine will run quieter (my timing chain side of the engine seems to be getting a little noisier with age. But I also heard that sometimes synthetics can increase consumption and the whole thing with not being great for the seals.
It is always a possibility that ARX dissolved some crud off the pan bottom or lower walls and created more volumetric space in the sump. There is also the possibility of volatility burn off of some of the lowest boiling elements of the mineral oil base. Only loosing 1 quart of oil over 4000 miles is not considered to be out of the ordinary for oil consumption.
With respect to full synthetics or group III synthetics, the likely hood of reducing volatility burn off is diminished. However, based on the age and prior use of conventional oil, there is a risk of creating a leak in the front or rear main seals. In my estimation you are better off sticking with what you have been doing with religious conventional oil change intervals.
One thing you might want to consider is to run the 3 fluid ounce total maintenance dose with each oil change. Due to the polar nature of ARX, the sturdyness of the oil film on the cylinder bores is greatly enhanced, which may retard any seepage of oil by the ring poacks up to the combustion chamber. Also it would provide for a better film of oil left behind on working parts overnight, so as to minimize the wear from dry starts. It's kind of like getting the benefiots of an ester oil, while paying for conventional.
thanks for the synthetic info. that's what i was looking for. so if i understand you correctly going synthetic would not help burn off. i had already heard the leaking seal part if you had been using dino oil forever.
as for adding arx maintenance dose i was hesitant since it removed crude and varnish causing burn off to begin with so why keep using it. but i do see your point. i just hope whatever was removed to cause the burn off will now allow fresh oil to swell and seals or the rings will step letting oil by.
as for the first part of your post i'm not buying it :) i've owned the car since day one and to have that much crud in my oil pan but not see a single sign of it during an oil change seems highly unlikely. for the most part it has been oil changes every 3k from day one.
i too agree 3/4 qt over 4k is not bad but when you consider this NEVER happened until arx it raised my eyebrows.
Your oil consumption could be due to a leak, so take a close look for any leaks if you have not already. If that's not the issue, you could have had ring wear for some time now that was being mitigated by a thin layer of varnish/sludge and now that arx has removed that layer, there is more space for oil to seep into your cylinders. That said, oil consumption increases with the miles you put on the oil, so what you're seeing could just be because you've gone 4k miles on these last couple oil change intervals.
no leaks at all. i will stick with 3k. should i go from 5-30w to 10-30w? i live in NC. i was told by a mechanic not to because the bearing tolerances are so tight.
I would use 5W-30 in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer, given a choice. At operating temp, the 2 oils should have the same or very similar viscosity, so not sure about his comment to use only 5W-30. 10W-30 is generally better suited for hottest weather part of the year and should burn off a bit less than 5W-30.
On the consumption, give it some time. I believe it may return to original consumption in the next couple of oil changes, if you stay with the same type/brand of oil.
May I suggest an oil that has really impressed me for lowering consumption and leaks-Valvoline Maxlife. This is a high mileage oil, but can safely be used on lower mileage cars. I use Maxlife 10W-40 with the ARX maintenance dose and it works well. Yours would probably be fine with the 5W-30 or 10W-30. 3000-5000 miles is fine for most type of driving use with Maxlife. I have over 300k miles on this car with original powertrain.
thanks for that info. that is what i was thinking. the guy at the garage was warning me about going to heavy on my wife's acura CL which has 140k on it. he said the tolerances on the bearings are very tight and you want the thinner viscosity. he said 10w-30 would be ok. he put in some additive on his truck to stop consumption and immediately his timing chain was noisy and the engine louder. he did an oil change to get rid of the additive. man, whatever he put in there must have really thickened his oil up. ok enough rambling...
i will check out the maxlife. i know arx does not recommend high mileage oil for cleaning phases because of the additive package but for maintenance i agree it should be ok. i had been using castrol high mileage briefly.
that's impressive mileage you have on your car. have you had to do anything major like head gasket?
No work at all. Only one water pump, alternator, valve cover gaskets. And of course, several Auto-Rx treatments from previous owner oil change neglect.
the guy at the garage was warning me about going to heavy on my wife's acura CL which has 140k on it. he said the tolerances on the bearings are very tight and you want the thinner viscosity.
At what time/temp? Every oil is too thick at start up. Depending on your wife's trip length, she might be turning off the key with the oil appearing like a 70weight or higher. Every oil is off the charts at startup (though that might not be true in the future). I ran some experimental 0w-10 that was 25cSt @ 40C/104F. I think that falls into a 50 weight.
Now some of the more avanced VVT may delay due to higher pressure/viscosity, but it should merely mean a delay. Otherwise anyone in Canada would only have VVT in the summer when using a 5w or 0w-20. As long as you're not going radical, I don't see the issue.
On the consumption thing. I've known a few that finally broke out of the 3k/3m prison and found that they consumed oil. They could attribute it to a number of things that they changed. Maybe they went to a different brand or a synthetic, but they never did it with the old oil ..and never had the opportunity to observe that the consumption was there already.
In my observations (not cast in stone) if you have no consumption to a certain point, then accelerated consumption, it's a fatigued component in the oil. It may be viscosity index improvers finally getting sheared ..or whatever. If it's flat consumption that just goes unobserved over a 3k span, then it is typically a mechanical/design condition. Not necessarily "wear". It could be a design characteristic or process variable in manufacture.
Wow the way you guys talk about oil makes me feel like a bang rocks and sticks together when it comes to my knowledge on the subject :) Thanks for all the info.
Geeaea: breaking out of the 3k prison was an accident done only a few times. Other than the breakout the only thing I did diff was use auto-rx. are you saying going over 3k is ok? my guess is the auto-rx aided in consumption by simply removing some deposits and varnish on seals. if that is the case it frustrates me since i have been religious on changing oil from the day i bought the car new.
I think for now i will KISS it (keep it simple stupid). Stick with my 10-30 dino in the summer and do the 3k change and monitor consumption. I heard Valvoline is better for consumption and I hear the new standard for oil is around the corner and will contain a seal swell component.
I thoroughly enjoy reading all of the input. It is extremely educational.
Well, Mike, there's a few dimensions to just about everything in lubrication. Most of us learn oil once and never revisit it again in our lifetime.
You might even consider a monograde 30 for the summer. This would tell you hands down if it's a viscosity issue due to shearing with the consumption. 10w-30 is pretty good as far as VII content goes, but it's also (many times) a tad lower in viscosity than its 5w-30 counterpart. I speculate that it's to allow it to breach the "10w" spec's.
Again, is the consumption "linear"? That is, are you down a half quart @ 1500-2000 miles? If yes, then it would point to a mechanical (physical could also be used) condition. If it has no consumption up to 3000 miles, then consumes oil, then it's the oil shearing and your engine not tolerating the lower viscosity that the oil retreats to.
Yes, going over 3000 miles if fine assuming that mileage would be the sensible measure of engine usage. Take a taxi cab. They don't encounter severe usage, per se~. They just consume a lot of fuel for the miles traveled. You can't figure out (without an OLM of some sort) how much work the engine has done unless you tracked the fuel passed through the engine, and had some idea what "normal" fuel consumption would be over a fair mileage span.
So, if you're 3000 miles is completed in a few months, 3000 miles is fine. If your 3000 miles is around 6months, then it might make sense to use time as your measure. It's hard to say without a full description of your daily drive (which may have been explained somewhere else) on the message board here).
-- Edited by geeaea on Monday 13th of September 2010 05:29:20 PM
i will def check the oil level across the 3k now that i just changed it. it has never been a problem so when i pulled the dipstick at 3k i was shocked to see it at 3/4 qt low at 4k miles.
as for viscosity i was following you up to the point about as the oil is sheared and the viscosity lowers how would that increase consumption? i always thought high viscosity was good BUT too high and you can consume. so if the viscosity decreases over time consumption would be less likely if only looking at it from a viscosity standpoint.
and you are correct. i visited the topic of oil many many years ago and thought i knew enough. my old school mechanic uncle is of the 20w-50 in the summer in his 442's and 10w-40 in the winter. that doesn't fly to well in today's engines :)
How can I state this (?) Anyway, if one has higher consumption, it is typically remedied by an increase in viscosity. It may have no effect at all if it's a design characteristic of the engine. Some consumption just isn't a matter to get upset over. Unless it's fouling out plugs or is so high that it competes with tanks of fuel for the frequency of adding it.
Some engines, like a 3.0 Mitsubishi I once owned, would use no oil until about 3k. Then it would routinely consume oil about every 1000-1200 miles. That's an oil fatigue issue. It was also with the oil's of the early 90's. It would probably do better today.
