If anybody has an idea on how to seperate Auto-Rx in some persons mind from some additive let me know. Free product for your efforts.
"Auto-Rx is not an additive it is a non hazardous metal cleaner. An additive changes the viscosity/chemistry of the host oil . Auto-Rx uses oil as a carrier and changes nothing. Hope you read the application for your engine and the FAQ."
Frank, anyone that has second thoughts can e-mail me and I will personally talk to them over the phone, or if they live near me they can go for a ride in my car and check out my old oil filters, but if they are serious skeptics I do not know what we can do, the only other thing I can think of is to cut open all my old filters and scrape off all the old junk and put it on a piece of paper, again serious skeptics are probably the kind of people that only hold on to there cars for a few years or let it go at 100K. I would also refer people over to BITOG.
All I can think of is backing up results with numbers and I'm already doing that as shown in my threads. I would think as I did seeing results from JQPublic would help change minds.
I've posted my results over at saturnfans, BITOG and have gotten lots of views and a few positive replies but its only been up 3 days. One guy over at Saturn would rather rebuild his engine before trying "special fluids".
As soon as I fix my fuel/emission issue on my 325 I'll post my results at bimmerforums.
Auto-Rx is not an additive it is a non hazardous metal cleaner. An additive changes the viscosity/chemistry of the host oil . Auto-Rx uses oil as a carrier and changes nothing.
I have to disagree. You add ARX to oil, that makes it an additive. It reduces TAN, cleans, suspends junk, and has at least some friction modifier qualities so it is affecting the oil. All in a good way.
I know you are trying to separate your product from other products, but I don't think this is the right terminology to do it. Militec makes the same claims of "oil as a carrier" and "not an additive" as well so I don't think you want your product in the same boat as them. I would be highly suspect of a product that says it is not an additive, but you add it to your oil.
I would use the fact that ARX is actually a combination of natural, biodegradable, polar OILS (Grp V for those that would know what it means) that have the unique ability to slowly soften and attach to debris, and carry it out of the system upon changing the host oil. This way you have oil going into oil, which doesn't sound as bad (at least to me). Something about having 0 VOC's (solvents that go into the air) so that what you buy stays in the engine, rather than goes into the air, should also be mentioned I would think. The word "volitile" attached to other products could be very scary to those that do not know what it is (the general public).
I wish I knew. My brother bought a n 01 F150 that obviously wasn't well cared for. I told him that I'd even buy him a bottle if he would try it. He's afraid it will cause leaks
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2001 Ford Ranger, 4.0 V6. Mobil 1 0w-30, Motorcraft FL 820s filter, 3oz Auto Rx
Your brother will likely have seal issues down the road because he didn't auto-rx clean this motor. I believe that he is gun shy of ARX, based on the ill effects quick solvent flushes, that insult seals by swelling. Auto-Rx does not swell seals at all.
Tempest,
I agree with some of what you say but not all. A virgin oil analysis of an oil sample with the cleaning dose shows only a miniscule varience in TAN(total acid number). After all esters are slightly acidic in nature. The reason we sometimes see TAN impacted while running the cleaning dose, is from the contaminants that have been dissolved and are now suspended in the host oil brew. Oxidized oil deposits are acidic in nature. Although the cleaning esters of ARX are slightly acidic in nature, they are designed to be corrosion inhibitors as well. The minimal effect on TAN due to ARX is a non issue. The greater effect of TAN from cleansing acidic deposits is proof positive that ARX is working.
All,
Used oil analysis of many oils run with the cleaning dose rate of Auto-Rx have shown that none of the host oils charactewristic are changed physically, nor chemically. Viscocity and indexing are unaltered. The additive packages are still present in the appropriate levels seemingly unaltered by the small dilution of Auto-Rx in the oil. So the only reason I can see that folks want to call it an additive is that it gets dumped into the crankcase through a valve cover. If thats the definition then I would say that the motor oil itself is an additive.
The product ARX is a proprietary blend of three ester groups. One is fatty ester, lanolin type, that is the base of ARX. Raw material is derived from the washing of sheep hair. This unique ester has very good detergent properties and is reponsible for most of the cleaning of engine deposits that motor oil detergents can't clean. A second ester group is an aliphatic ester, which helps in the oil film formation. Esters of this group make up the base of many aviation oils. They prevent dry spots or fish eyes in the oil film formation. This is obviously important while flying many thousand feet above the ground. It is also vital during the cleansing of deposits in your ground level motor. The other ester group is a polyol ester. Although is primarily used as a thinning agent of the ARX blend, improving pour point, they are biodegadeable eco friendly extreme pressue agents. By green I mean cholorine free, phoshate free, boron free, etc.
I like to think of ARX as relif pitcher in baseball. When the starting motor oil has failed due to errors such as ecessive length of oil changes, you have got to go to the bullpen. The starting motor oil wears down over the life of an oil change, at the pesty price of an internal motor problem, why not go to the bullpen, ARX maintenance dose. If you have seal leaks and can not justify a horendous labor charge to swap out a cheap seal, then go to the closer, ARX.
Every motor crankcase can hold and extra 3-12 fluid ounces without overfilling, provided that it wasn't overfilled to start with. So why not make use of this idle space to protect the vehicle investment and keep it operating at full strength over its usefull life. Its like adding good cholesteral to the blood stream to remove bad cholesteral, and the oil filter acts like your liver. May be this is why it is called Auto-Rx. A prescription for a healthy motor.
Good write up. All I know is that I added 6oz of ARX to my transmission (along with a filter if that would have any affect), and the TAN went down by .5. And engine oil is necessary to run the machine, so IMHO it is not an additive. But ANYTHING that you add to the oil is an additive IMHO.
I am assuming that you added the 6 fluid ounces of ARx to your transmission, because of two reasons. Reason one being that it was coming up on due or overdue for a fluid exchange. The second reason would be because of some performance issues, with the trans that you believed or hoped were due to deposits. In either case some of the unsultation towards a weak TBN reading were still likely due to oxidized oil deposits being dissolved. Just because a transmission isn't pounded by blow by gases like a motor, doesn't mean that that fluid doen't oxidize to some degree. Otherwise it would stay a nice transparent pink for life, which we know is not true.
I guess you would consider a vitamin pill ingested to be a body additive.
I guess I always looked at the word additive as adding something foreign to oil chemistry for hopes of an expected benefit, such as teflon, or chlorinated paraffins, or other products to raise viscocity, whereby the oil characteristics were changed, either positive or negative. Some folks like to add ZDDP to their oil because current blends of oil have less than in the past, mainly due to pollution regulations. I would tend to even think that I would classify this as an additive because most folks will end up using 2 to 3 times of the amount they should. By the same token teflon products that I do not recommend contain teflon hopefully dispersed in oil to some degree. Therefor by definition you would state that only the teflon is additive, while the oil is not.
At the end of the day, auto-rx is sold as a cleaner. It is unique in that it the only product that allows machinery cleansing under normal operation. It doesn't adversely effect the host oil in any fashion, but provides superior protection as the cleaning process occurs.
Bottom line is that most additives found on the floor of retail stores are more harmful than good. At the same time most quicky flush type products can do more harm than good.
I know we are splitting hairs here. Are you a Pontiac man of the past or present? I think they should have named the G6 a Tempest.
How about calling Auto-Rx a "Special Product"? Everyone thinks they know what an additive is, it's something you simply "add" to what you already have. When someone says "oil additive" I simply don't have high expectations, so few of them live up to their hype. People in general are skeptical to oil additives, as they should be, because their benefits are hard to verify, their costs are hard to justfy.
Where is the main source for introducing new customers to ARX? I learned about ARX on Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG). Under which forum heading are the merits of ARX discussed? Oil Additives. Get BITOG to create a new category for Auto-Rx, call it Special Products (or whatever) and sooner or later people will start to distinguish ARX from the other products which really are oil additives.
I remember when the quote, oil additives section was up near the top of the topics menu, over at BITOG. Suddenly about 3 months ago they put this section down out of sight, near the bottom of the topics list. Based on the number of hits on this topic, it should be moved back to the number 3 or 4 catagory.
"Your brother will likely have seal issues down the road because he didn't auto-rx clean this motor. I believe that he is gun shy of ARX, based on the ill effects quick solvent flushes, that insult seals by swelling. Auto-Rx does not swell seals at all."
I'm very sure that he will have seal issues, probably sooner than "down the road". I don't think he's gun shy, he's just cheap and knows nothing about cars. I think its a combination of ignorance, and finding a reason to not spend money. I then offered to buy it for him. He had a buddy tell him that oil additives can ruin his motor - his friend doesn't know anything about cars either.
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2001 Ford Ranger, 4.0 V6. Mobil 1 0w-30, Motorcraft FL 820s filter, 3oz Auto Rx
Since it has been proven that Auto-Rx improves emissions test results, how about we say that Auto-Rx DECREASES Global Warming buy letting less contaniments out of the tailpipes or something.
well if it is basics get an infomercial sorta thing just explain the basics and show them what will come out in thier filters and get some hard figures for the site, as with scams all they have is user feedback which can be made up. The thing which sold me was bitog and rms13 because I could see what it did.
How did bitog help you in your decision to buy Auto-Rx ? have you read all the tests on www.auto-rx.com? how many more tests and photos can we upload on website? what other product have you purchased with a user satisfaction guarantee?
What causes you to suspect our customers commments ?
BITOG helped as it comes accross as a true independant as if someone had problems they can say it and it seems on that they don't, also they are so hard on things that can't be backed up, so made the claims of auto-rx real for me.
The testimonials aren't suspect it is just what everyone else does I think an unethical webmaster could make them up and they do on some so called wonder products if that makes sense.
Maybe winning over and sponsering car clubs would be a way to make it more credable in the eyes of the people who don't know.
Auto-Rx is a proven product why would anyone want to fake testimonials? that is the problem some customers who purchase ARX go to BITOG for instructions and do not go to the ARX web site and print out the instructions and follow them.
Auto-Rx was one of the "original sponsors of "bitog" over the last 5 years this board has had many changes ' the most damaging was the death of the past owner. bitog is full of oil sales people-friction reduction chemistry salesman and just plain people with an agenda. Problem is they don't tell you who they really are and some "newbie' reads a post and takes it as gospel.
The Auto-Rx Forum and majority of car clubs message boards post the facts and the odd's favour you that this information is without ignorance.
I've noticed the same thing on BITOG. Considering the good results I've always had using Mobil 1, I get a kick out of reading the "bashing" that goes on over there.
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2001 Ford Ranger, 4.0 V6. Mobil 1 0w-30, Motorcraft FL 820s filter, 3oz Auto Rx
I agree that product differentiation is critical in today's market. After I studied your web-site and thought about how I can compare it to other similar products, I can't. Auto-Rx is self differentiated. I don't know of another product that does what Auto-RX is reported to do. Perhaps "metal cleaner" is a better description that should be promoted. I wouldn't get too hung up on the word "additive."
I recommend that you contact a lubricant additives company who can help you with marketing your product and finding more applications. I know one company that can do this for you.
The first rule in business is "listen to your customer" and the second is, "be easy to buy from."
So as a customer, I'm telling you that on-line marketing of engine related products is not easy for me as a customer to buy. I want a product that I can touch and feel, see and smell. I want to talk to someone who knows face-to-face what I need and if a product will work or not for me.
I trust my local autoparts shop (NOT the Autozones, but privately owned shops). That is where I would pick up the newcomers. From there, word will spread quickly.
I think that the best way to do this is to get together with a fleet operator ,,, a taxi service? and document everything...
In Orlando "Mears" pretty much owns all of the taxi business and would probably be open to a formal test if it reduces their downtime for engine replacements and such...
Also I would think that a friendlier price would go a long way in getting people to try the product especially as you are marketing to most as an ongoing process ... as another person broke it down I am familiar with 2 of the 3 major components ... lanolin is CHEAP (think Go-Jo hand cleaner ,, it's just packaged lanolin) and Aeroshell aviation oil is only a bit more expensive than auto formulations... it's that "group 5/V" oil I'm not familiar with ...
Frank, Have you ever done mailings to Service Managers in dealerships of problematic cars? I mean known sludgers - VW, Saab, Toyota, etc? Just wondering if a brochure, letter from you, this web address, etc, inviting these people to check the product out would be beneficial?
They deal with this sludge issue on a weekly basis I would imagine. I know that not all would be interested, because they simply want to sell a new engine in a sludge case -- but not all service people are that way. Many are problem solvers, and a product like yours might stop them in their tracks & cause them to take a closer look.
would go a long way in getting people to try the product especially as you are marketing to most as an ongoing process ... as another person broke it down I am familiar with 2 of the 3 major components ... lanolin is CHEAP (think Go-Jo hand cleaner ,, it's just packaged lanolin) and Aeroshell aviation oil is only a bit more expensive than auto formulations... it's that "group 5/V" oil I'm not familiar with ...
