Can Auto RX do any thing for and engine like this? THis a lexus Rx300 w. V6, 80k miles. The motors our notorious for sludging . Mine has all the symptoms of one that looked like this (smoke, burning oil, etc). (There was a class action lawsuit,. I missed that window).
I don't know if mine is as bad, but probably not far off. Any hope with Auto rx?
Auto-Rx can be seen along with text, go to www.auto-rx.com and print out application for SLUDGE and buy product in quanity needed , follow instructions, all will be well
Doing Auto-Rx is definetly cheaper than a new engine, you have nothing too lose. Good luck and please follow the instructions.
Thanks for the reply s,
I did visit the site and had a few concerns:.
The before pics looked ...not bad (compared to mine), could it really handle my kind of sludge?Time is and issue not cost. We don't drive the car a lot and 2500 miles for the first stage of the treatment will take at least 6 months. Another few months for the second stage...all totaled, almost a year.
A side effect of this cars type of sludge is excessive oil consumption, about a quart every 700 miles. Would I be adding a few ounces of Auto-RX with every quart.
I guess I'd love to think this stuff could truly do the job, but I don't really want to wait a year to find it didn't. I have unpleasant alternatives and would like to get them over with now if I have to.
So do you really think the basic Heavy Sludge Application regiment would do it? I wonder if there is any clever way to accelerate the process?
If you wishes to do this job of removing the sludges, it's time consuming and is saving yourself money on garage's labour charges :-
Drain the Engine Oil out and remove the Oil Filter, it's doesn't matter if the engine is cold...
1) Wear a pair of disposable gloves 2) Remove the pair of Rocker Covers - V6 3) Collect the soft sludges and use the paper towels to wipe carefully 4) Use new clean paint brushes and dip it in bowl of engine flush 5) Carefully brushed along the valves, camshaft, ect, ect 6) Keep refreshing the engine flush in the bowl and use paper towel to wipe the brush clean 7) On engine do this until it's looks clean don't worry about the ones that is hard to remove, pat it all dry with paper towels 8) Clean the inside of the Rocker Covers and put on a new pair of Gaskets, replace it back on.
1) Wear a fresh pair of disposable gloves 2) Remove the bottom Sump Pan 3) The Oil Pick Up (Tube) would have to be removed for deep clean in Petrol, Paraffin or Engine Flush and dry it carefully with clean cloth 4) Do the same thing as number three above 5) Do the same thing as number four above 6) Do the same thing as number five above - Sump 7) Do the same thing as number six above 8) Do the same thing as number seven - Sump 9) Put the Oil Pick Up (Tube) back on 10) Clean the inside of the Sump Pan and put on a new pair of Gasket, replace it back.
I haven't seen the engine in the flesh but am speaking of experinces :-
1) Put on a cheap Oil Filter, make sure it is the correct one 2) Pour in the stand alone (Biodegradable) Engine Oil Flush to the right amount of Ltrs in the engine and do what its says on the bottle 3) Remove the the used Oil Filter and drain out the dirty Oil leave it drip dry overnight 4) Repeat number two 5) Repeat number three 6) Put on O.E.M. Oil Filter 7) Top up with Mineral Engine Oil - if the vechicle manufactor says can use thin Engine Oil. then use it, 8) Pour one bottle of 'Auto-RX' and follow the Heavy Sludge Applications, you may have to repeat that Application again to ensure it is free of sludges.
Please remember you must study of 'how to' before carrying out this kind of work and ask around to any trusted vehicle machanists if in any doubt.
HTH.
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
I can wrap my head around your prescription, though it's not something I'm dying to do.
As I've heard it, the most immediate symptom causing problem with the sludge in this car, is the fact that it plugs small holes in the heads and thus keeps oil from draining down into the pan fast enough. I guess this would essentially flood the head where the oil can seep into the cylinders via the valve guide seals (?).
Below is a link to the cleaning of a Camery V6 (same basic engine). To me this is far more laborious than it has to be. Yours is sensible plan and I have thought of a few other methods along same line that don't require these super drastic measures.
As I see it, the moving parts should be O.K in that thers no time for sludge to collect on parts moving some 2500 times a minuet ...I.E. "a rolling stone gather no moss".
This is evident in the pics.. So its really a question of clearing the drain holes and getting rid of the bulk of the sludge (apparently insulates and keeps heat in), and in nooks and granys, improvise as I go.
Then I can see Auto RX doing the mop up, without plugging up the oil filter or pick with sludge laden oil (theres a lot of goop in these things at this point).
I'm not trying to be prickly. My agenda is only to get a clean engine before I do more damage. If there is no painless way to expedite the Auto RX regiment (I.E. doubling up dose, etc) , I can consider waiting a year for results for IF it will in indeed clean up all that sludge.
What in my agenda dosn't fit? (this is not a retorical question)
The problem I see here is that when someone comes to us with an engine that has not been maintained or neglected for whatever reason we cannot expect or guarantee that Auto-Rx is going to clean things up right away, if your engine is very dirty, meaning no oil is getting to the heads the damage may already be done and Auto-Rx is not going to make it worse, the problem with aggressively cleaning this stuff with kerosene or any other strong solvents is that you can destroy your seals. I strongly recommend to anyone buying a used car and thinking they are getting a good deal to take the valve covers off and see what is inside, if you do not want the hassle go and buy a new car and start the Maintenance Dose right away, when I started Auto-Rx I do not think I asked Frank any questions about what was going to happen, I was at the mercy of Auto-Rx and my engine is running great, Frank said my engine would run better and it did. I started Auto-Rx at 343,000 miles and now I am at 359,000 miles and all is going well, the only thing that is going to plug up your oil filter are the contaniments that Auto-Rx releases.
What Frank really meant is the 'Auto-RX' need to be hot before it's starts to work cleaning and is concerns about damaging the engine on prolong tick over or driving with all that badly tighted sludges. HTH.
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
Those 3-4 mile hops are considered short trip driving and could be the cause of your sludge issues because the engine is not getting warm enough, I think it will take at least 2Clean and Rinse Phases to get that glop out, the Clean Phase will loosen it and the Rinse Phase will release it, I would plan on buying some extra oil filter's and if you are serious about doing Auto-Rx you may need to change the oil filter every 500 miles, maybe more maybe less. If you get into the WONDER PHASE you will be driving yourself nuts. It is important to remember that everyone's engine is different, Forever Ford has outlined what you can do in excellent detail, have you looked under your valve covers and replaced your PCV.
I kinda thought I'd be doing frequent filter changes.. Interesting about the short hops being a contributing factor to the problem. I guess Ill just have to weigh my options.
The fact of the matter is the engine was a poor design. Zillions of responsible people had this exact problem. Lexus lost a class action lawsuit requiring them to do what ever is necessary to remedy & repair the effected cars, Modification were made in 2002 to the design of the heads eliminate this issue.
Unfortunately, I would have to provide all maintenance records from day one to take advantage of this settlement. I don't think I can..
I'm going to see if Lexus will bend a little and do my engine. Take the top and bottom covers off and scrub it out or, see if I can take some long trips with Auto RX .
I'll check out Forever Ford to see your method there ( I happen to have a Model A...not registered since 52' runs with some prodding... no sludge like this)
I am the second owner, I've had the car for ...not sure, 5 years? Presumably lexus has all records on there computer of dealer service. My problem is I've either serviced the car myself or didn't make any effort to keep records when some one else did work on it.
If Lexus won't do it, Someone showed a pic on a Lexus forum showing the crux of the problem. Aside from the obvious goop (insulating, contaminating new oil,etc) there are a series of drain holes that drain the oil from the over-head cams DOWN to the pan. They get plugged up and restricted. Goop begets goop..
So my back up plan (if I get phsyced) is to pull the valve covers and the pan, scrape, scrub, soak with suitable degreaser. Ultimately give it the Auto-Rx routine.
I also contemplated (will sound crazy) pulling the valve covers and pan off and steam cleaning the 'ell out of it. I figure if I air dry it afterwards for a few hours, button it up and get some sacrificial oil coursing through its veins, maybe some down the plug holes. Of course manualy ensure the drain holes are clear. The sludge will be gone and there'd be no time for any significant corrosion.
Then after everything is lubed, run for some minutes until any moisture emulsifies in the oil, change it and RX it.
Cisco freak,
No search necessary. It's well documented anywhere you look. (See links and pics above). The was a class action lawsuit and Lexus lost.:
I would be careful as to what kind of degreaser you use so you do not damage any seals, but it sounds like your best bet is to find someone on the Lexus Forums who has done this correctly, obviously you need to somehow unclog those drain holes, my hunch is that they must be small and that is 1 of the reasons it got gummed up.
PK4, just pour Auto-RX and start driving. Nothing to loose. I have the Camry that is prone to sludging. I have used Synthetic all its live. I don't think mine was sludging at all. I put it in anyway. it seems to have cleaned it well. I just have faith. Take it on your vacation, with a few oil filter. A lot of people needs to have proof, I just need to have faith. It took me 1 year just to finish the first phase. I am about 250 miles of 2nd rinse phase. All is well, car runs much better than before. I have also finished the transmission clean and flush it myself.
Conclusion, you can take as long as you want. Toyota made durable engines, trust Auto-RX to do the sludge removal even if it takes long it will worth your time.
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1995 GMC Suburban 6.5 Turbo Diesel 99k miles (ARX finished)
2000 Toyota Camry around 153K miles (ARX finished)
PK4, just pour Auto-RX and start driving. Nothing to loose. I have the Camry that is prone to sludging. I have used Synthetic all its live. I don't think mine was sludging at all. I put it in anyway. it seems to have cleaned it well. I just have faith. Take it on your vacation, with a few oil filter. A lot of people needs to have proof, I just need to have faith. It took me 1 year just to finish the first phase. I am about 250 miles of 2nd rinse phase. All is well, car runs much better than before. I have also finished the transmission clean and flush it myself. Conclusion, you can take as long as you want. Toyota made durable engines, trust Auto-RX to do the sludge removal even if it takes long it will worth your time.
JMJNET - Have you seen PK4's Lexus engine in the flesh and have you taken it partly apart just to confirm that it is safe to carry on driving without the risk of breaking up the inside parts ?
I still think that a stand alone engine flushing oil is needed before Auto-RX finish off the job.
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
First congratulations on you millage. Yes your engine is very similar to mine and is just about as susceptible to sludge. Given regular oil changes with synthetics has served you well. From what the dealer told me you have nothing to fear. But go here, see how luckey you are:
I did a cursory search for the ford forum I think you eluded to and came up sort nill. With that said,.what would you propose as a pre- Auto RX flushing oil?
This thread seems to be taking on a life of it's own. It's just good points keep being made. At some I'll have gleaned and digested what I can and run with it.
1.) A good dino 5W-20 may be a good option here, as it'll be thinner than a xW-30 so it can work its way into clogged passages better.
2.) Barring the use of the 5W-20, you could try and use Shell Rotella 10W-30 (I've found it at both Menards and Walmarts, but that's it around here in the Chicagoland area). This would get you a 30 weight oil but also the greater detergent and dispersion capabilities of the diesel rated lubes.
Foreverford, I did a cursory search for the ford forum I think you eluded to and came up sort nill. With that said,.what would you propose as a pre- Auto RX flushing oil? This thread seems to be taking on a life of it's own. It's just good points keep being made. At some I'll have gleaned and digested what I can and run with it. Regards, PK
You will find this username "ForeverFord" being copied wide-spread in Ford's forums on this side of the pond! so doing some checking up on me will give you the wrong personal informations.
Anyway, about the 'stand alone' engine flushing oils that comes with 4 or 5 ltrs bottles which have special compound oils that is very, very thin - 0W/20 which mean you cannot drive it at all and almost have the consistency of tap water when cold or hot, so it's thin enough to remove some sludges in the 'oilways' on the top ends and the 'oil pick up' at the bottom end to give room for thin engine oil like 0 or 5 W depanding on the manuafactor's Handbook stated, pumping freely to circulate around the engine block and with Auto-RX in it will gradually liquefies the remaining hard stuck on sludges then dump it in the oil filter.
At the engine centre where my good friend works, their policy on a engine like yours is to take the engine apart and clean them in a chemical bath, but the Labour charges are horrendous, the other cheaper method for not so badly sludged is to use the flushing oils and most often have to replace the leaking seals & gaskets, but they don't use 'Auto-RX' !
Think about it, I am only giving you the easy option and by all means you don't have to follow my method after all it's your engine and your money.
HTH.
-- Edited by ForeverFord at 17:24, 2008-06-24
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
Foreverford, I did a cursory search for the ford forum I think you eluded to and came up sort nill. With that said,.what would you propose as a pre- Auto RX flushing oil? This thread seems to be taking on a life of it's own. It's just good points keep being made. At some I'll have gleaned and digested what I can and run with it. Regards, PK
You will find this username "ForeverFord" being copied wide-spread in Ford's forums on this side of the pond! so doing some checking up on me will give you the wrong personal informations.
Anyway, about the 'stand alone' engine flushing oils that comes with 4 or 5 ltrs bottles which have special compound oils that is very, very thin - 0W/20 which mean you cannot drive it at all and almost have the consistency of tap water when cold or hot, so it's thin enough to remove some sludges in the 'oilways' on the top ends and the 'oil pick up' at the bottom end to give room for thin engine oil like 0 or 5 W depanding on the manuafactor's Handbook stated, pumping freely to circulate around the engine block and with Auto-RX in it will gradually liquefies the remaining hard stuck on sludges then dump it in the oil filter.
At the engine centre where my good friend works, their policy on a engine like yours is to take the engine apart and clean them in a chemical bath, but the Labour charges are horrendous, the other cheaper method for not so badly sludged is to use the flushing oils and most often have to replace the leaking seals & gaskets, but they don't use 'Auto-RX' !
Think about it, I am only giving you the easy option and by all means you don't have to follow my method after all it's your engine and your money.
HTH.
-- Edited by ForeverFord at 17:24, 2008-06-24
That is good reasonable suggestion to get the car in good running condition for ARX treatment.
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1995 GMC Suburban 6.5 Turbo Diesel 99k miles (ARX finished)
2000 Toyota Camry around 153K miles (ARX finished)
You've given me some very sound, practical advice. A very complete recipe that I think I will follow top to bottom. I'm inclined to follow the premise. The keys to me are the flushing oil and the appropriate degreaser/engine flush.
As to tearing the whole motor apart, in my opinion, once you do, you might as well rebuild it and frankly I see no reason to put a new motor in a car with 80k mi (that I don't really like that much). Indeed, if it came to that point where I've absolutely wrecked the engine, I'm sure there are plenty of these in junk yards. I think the motor is used in a number of cars.
Were it an irreplaceable vintage Ferrari or something I can see the merit .
Questions:
1) The flushing oils, how do you pump it around the motor, do you fill it up just like normal oil but leave the plugs out and ....spin the motor with the starter?...Or...
Questions: 1) The flushing oils, how do you pump it around the motor, do you fill it up just like normal oil but leave the plugs out and ....spin the motor with the starter? ...Or... 2)How du yo flush out the flushing oil?
Thanks much for all the advice, PK
1) Plan a date for 'no driving weekend' - on the first morning jack up the car on the oppise side of the Sump Plug which would make the 'draining' out quicker and is a better method. Put an Axle Stand and oil waste stray under the car, remove the Sump Plug on a overnight stone cold engine so it will unscrew easily because the metal expands in heat which would caused the rounded off in shape. Remove the oil filter and let it run out for a hour or so. remove the oil waste stray, despose the old engine oil in a correct manner, put the Sump Plug back on and a cheap clean Oil Filter, do not over tight, just gentle hand tight, remove the oil filler cap and pour about 4 or 4.5 ltr of 'stand alone' engine flushing oil via in oil filler, put the oil filler cap back on then remove the Anxle Stand and jack down then leave it for about half an hour to let the flushing oil to reach the bottom of the Sump, start the engine as you normally do and let it tick over for 30 minutes, don't rev the engine and don't drive it either!
2) 30 minutes is up switch off, jack up as last time, Axle Stand and oil waste stray under the car, carefully remove the Sump Plug as the oil will be hot rushing out all over your hand! - (wear vechicle disposable rubber gloves) - remove oil filter and let it drip dry overnight. On the second morning if you wish to repeat the engine flushing method again, use another 4 or 4.5 ltr engine flushing oil and a cheap clean oil filter, tick over for 30 minutes and let it drip dry overnight again.
On the third morning use a clean cloth to wipe the inside and outside hole of the Sump Plug and around the oil filter engine block, use the Mineral thin engine oil - i.e 0W, 5W or 10W as stated in your vehcile hand book, grease around on a OEM oil filter so it will seals better, put in on and hand tight as far you can, ensure the Sump Plug is clean or replace for a new one, tight it with a spanner, but not too tight. Pour the correct amount of engine oil in via oil filler and one bottle of Auto-RX, leave it for half an hour and then start the engine for 5 minutes then move the car about a yard or two to check that is no oil is dripping out, go for a drive and at back home check for leaks. Follow the 'Heavy Sludge Application', if there is a seal leak follow the 'Seal Leaks Application'
HTH.
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
This string has become a cluster of recipes that take way to much time , could be unsafe and do damage. PK who pays for this Forever Ford ?
Auto-Rx will clean the sludge out period your job is to follow the application directions, you seem to think your case of driving a sludgemobile is unique. using Auto-Rx maybe you will have to clean it four times , however you won,t have to put a wrench on the engine.
This forum is about chemistry not alternatives to common sense. If we see more recipes of mechanical methods versus Auto-Rx this string is going to be deleted.
Auto-Rx works if you work it, thats why we carry a guarantee.
I have too agree with Frank, this site is about Auto-Rx and Auto-Rx only. If you want to go wild about flushing your engine out I would suggest going over to BITOG and discussing this kind of thing, this string is starting to sound like Anti-Auto-Rx, if you guys have to discuss this stuff on this board please do it in the SEND MESSAGE section to one another, this string is really going to confuse people.
I have spoken to my 'good friend' about this and he said something about Auto-RX, but I disagree.
I have asked about the engine flushing oils they used at work , he said it's very safe and is something like the Heartland products on your side of the pond, but the downside is leaking seals & gaskets which is due the owner's poorly history servcing routine maintenances.
On my advice is a good sound old fashioned method and is the best as I have been doing this for 15+ years without any problems it is not the same as those 'quick flushes' that comes in small cans or bottles or those 'engine flushing machines' - we don't have them over here, only in a later on where a very few have the 'T-Tech' for the Auto-Box.
Let me make this clear I mean it really clear I am not doing the anti Auto-RX thing, in PK4's severe case you should know better that Auto-RX cannot remove the sludge, tar & varnish mixed with engine oil from start up, the engine oil is too thick it's would be too late to save the engine - i.e. filled sludge at the bottom of the oil pan, inside the rocker covers, possible clogged oil galleys, valvetrain, timing chain & cover, oil pump (the heart), pick up tube & screen.
Come on you know that !!
The stand alone engine flushing oil (I am not naming a brand) in 4 to 5 ltr large bottle - 0W/20 viscosity a lot thinner than Auto-RX itself when cold.
I am still an Auto-RX user and amongs other products that Auto-RX can't do.
Frank - when I first read this thread I knew you wouldn't answer it, because it a too big a job for Auto-RX to do and that is the truth as you know it too.
I understands this Forum is be for Auto-RX only, I will respect that and it leave alone.
Have a nice life and all the best for Auto-RX products.
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1994 Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth Automatic 2.9i V6 24valves
Let me try to end this string on a positive note with my experience since my circumstances were the same as PK4 except for the sludge, at 330,000 miles I put on a dual exhaust, new oil pan and pump, the guy that primed my pump said it took a long time to build up pressure, he told me there is probably a lot of junk in there, started looking on the net and I stumble onto BITOG and read every post about Auto-Rx, nothing was ever said about the product not working, I even Googled problems with Auto-Rx and found nothing, everything in this string about flushing oil's, and any other old school idea I read about the hazards, I did not read any hazards about Auto-Rx, I did all of my homework before contacting Frank, the only reason I contacted Frank was to get his opinion as too whether this product would work in my situation. I just did what he said too do, the reason I did what he said was because my best thinking got my engine into the shape it was at 343,000 miles. The problem with cleaning an engine is that most of the stuff is where you cannot get too in any way, I even talked to an owner of a repair shop about these oil machine flushes and chemicals, he said Brent I could buy 1 but honestly this businness has been around for 55 years and I want it to continue because even though this may clean everything up it is going to destroy all or most of the seals and there will be leaks everywhere. The only thing that I am good at is changing fluids and other minor repairs, I am not an expert but I will share my experiences with everyone. This product (Auto-Rx) works if you work it, it does not work if you question Frank about every little thing, will it work, what if's, etc. My results are from taking Frank's advice and the Moderator's on this board, especially Daryl too, as they have the most knowledge about this product, I think I have written enough.
This string has become a cluster of recipes that take way to much time ...PK who pays for this Forever Ford ?
Auto-Rx will clean the sludge out period ...follow the application directions...you seem to think your case of driving a sludgemobile is unique. using Auto-Rx maybe you will have to clean it four times , however you won,t have to put a wrench on the engine.
This forum is about chemistry not alternatives to common sense. If we see more recipes of mechanical methods versus Auto-Rx this string is going to be deleted.
Auto-Rx works if you work it, thats why we carry a guarantee.
This Thread has indeed taken on life of it's own but, if someone takes the time to post a reply, I feel obligated to respond (so why yell me, yell at them).
But since your picking on me (for trying to figure a way to use your product?) I'll defend myself. If you read my posts and understand my situation, the accompanying recipes won't to bad. And they still include your product (at least I plan(ed) on its inclusion) So what's the beef?
My initial post, simply put was; would this product would work under my circumstances with the muck in my engine. A valid question I would think, in that the Auto-RX web site shows nothing as severe. It suggest for heavy sludge, one 2500+1500 mile treatment will do. I didn't think that it would and... neither do you.
In fact, you upped it to 4 treatments which takes the treatment from 1.5 years to 6 years + of treatment. You see, In my posts, I state that we drive this car no more than 2500 miles a year.
Is it really so out of line then, to explore mechanical means to augment and expedite the Auto-Rx solution? Bounce it off people who know the product?.Look for a creative hybrid solution I can live with (not 6 years)? If It still involves your product, why would you care?
Guess what, there is a harmless, effective, hybrid solution. It is inspired some by suggestions here, and a bit from my own experiences with about 25 odd worn out or under powered motors and it eventually involves something like Auto-RX. .
Since that doesn't follow like a lemming the directions exactly (you have to admit, how can I), I'm sure this thread will now be yanked.(to bad, some good information here)
Thanks all for your creative input and suggestions. Hope you donj't get in trouble to.
PK
P.S. You seem to think your case of driving a sludgemobile is unique
Hardly, as I stated several times in this thread, this is so common with this engine that it warranted (and won) a class action lawsuit. (I'm 1 year late for a claim). But I'll admit the only engine I've seen like this wa an 80's camaro witth no oil change for 50k miles
I do have to question if I'm going to work this because of the simple fact that Franks prescription would take over 6 and a half years to complete. Remember, we only drive this thing about 2500 mies a year.
I don't think thats a nit-picky issue and I posed all my questions only to whoever wanted to respond, not Frank exclusively or otherwise. I really would like to use this product. I'm convinced it can work some wonders. I think in my case though, it requires some creativity.
For instance, I think by getting rid of the obvious, easy to access glop (under valve covers and the pan), Auto-Rx will be freed up to expend it's energy in the nooks and crannies I can't see or reach. Then maybe it can do it's thing on a reasonable timespan
I've also learned that the big gremlin in these gooped up motors is right under the valve covers. Why waste auto-Rx's punch and time gnawing away at these when I can easily clean them with a blunt pick and a little dexterity.
so doing some checking up on me will give you the wrong personal informations. 
