Auto-Rx Customers Questions & Answers

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Blue smoke again

bmwtechguy · Senior Member

Your consumption is not so bad, but would be nice if it would go down some. Sometimes a change in oil type or brand will lessen or increase consumption. I'm not sure if you have any other good oil choices there or not. How much ARX are you using for the maintenance dose? How many miles between oil changes and what viscosity are you using there?

Those smoke stop products are usually just copolymer thickeners to increase the oil viscosity. Might be better to just use a heavier viscosity oil instead, or a high mileage oil of a higher viscosity.

-- Edited by bmwtechguy at 17:26, 2009-01-18

Frank Miller · Guru

Your oil is not working well with the Auto-Rx Application For Heavy Oil Burning. Can you get Castrol GTX ?

Would much prefer a Group 11 oil for this application however if i have to go to group 111 I know Castrol GTX
works.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thank you very much for the much appreciated responses. The viscosities vary greatly in the Middle East, and Mitsubishi's recommendation is 15W-40 or 20W-50 weight oil. Presently, I am using Castrol GTX 20W-50 in my crankcase, with 3,000 miles between oil changes.

Castrol GTX is a Group II oil in the Middle East, to the best of my understanding: Castrol GTX 20W-50

BP also offer two variants of the Visco brand (2000 and 3000), both in 20W-50 viscosities, meeting the API SL/CF specifications. The only difference between the 2000 and 3000 offerings is the oil change interval, where 2000 lasts 3,000 miles and the newly available 3000 lasts 5,000 miles. The Visco oil has an additive package, known as Thermal Guard, which is supposed to keep an engine 30% cleaner and reduce oil burn off. I would assume this means higher levels of zinc. Would this be an acceptable choice of motor oil to go with the Heavy Oil Burning Application? Thanks again.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

bmwtechguy wrote:
How much ARX are you using for the maintenance dose?

I missed that one. I'm using 90 ml, which I reckon is 3 US fl. oz.

For my next application, I will be mixing 10.5 fl. oz. with the 5.2 US quarts of oil my engine takes.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Falcon LS wrote:

BP also offer two variants of the Visco brand (2000 and 3000), both in 20W-50 viscosities, meeting the API SL/CF specifications. The only difference between the 2000 and 3000 offerings is the oil change interval, where 2000 lasts 3,000 miles and the newly available 3000 lasts 5,000 miles. The Visco oil has an additive package, known as Thermal Guard, which is supposed to keep an engine 30% cleaner and reduce oil burn off. I would assume this means higher levels of zinc. Would this be an acceptable choice of motor oil to go with the Heavy Oil Burning Application? Thanks again.

Any opinions on this? Thank you.

Frank Miller · Guru

Can you try BP Vesco 2000 ? if so extend cleaning mileage to 3000 miles and rinse mileage to 3500 miles. The additive "Thermal Guard" should not be competing with Auto-Rx Chemistry with the increase in miles.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Sure, no problem. I'm due for an oil change soon and will go with BP Visco 2000 for the Auto-Rx application. As Castrol is wholly owned by BP, the chemistry of BP Visco and Castrol GTX are pretty much the same...with the exception of the "Thermal Guard" additive. I'll keep this thread updated as the mileage builds up. :) Thanks again!

Falcon LS · Senior Member

I went ahead and purchased the oil for my Heavy Oil Burning Application, alongside a WIX 51334 oil filter. Since I couldn't find much info on the oil online, here it is (click to enlarge):

I will keep updating this thread as the mileage builds up. I reckon we can then take it from there, and see whether or not a second application may be required.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Quick question regarding the application. Would it adversely affect my application if I mix in a bottle of STP Smoke Stop? The blue smoke that puffs out on extended idle, usually appearing at traffic jams and lights, can get me into trouble with the cops here. I'm already using the heaviest weight possible, short of 20W-60 which isn't that easy to find.

Frank Miller · Guru

Don't mix chemistries Auto-Rx will stop Blue Smoke it just takes a little longer. Thank you for posting what you were thinking about doing , a lot of people don;t and than want to blame someone or something else for there lack of success.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

No problem, Frank. Thank you for providing the excellent support and backing that you offer after purchasing such a great product!

Frank Miller · Guru

Falcon this may be old news however click on this link http://www.google.com.sa/ you can change the
entire Auto-Rx Web Site in Arabic. Hope this helps.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thanks, Frank! I didn't know that actually, I'll give it a try. :)

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Quick update on the application. I changed my oil and filter this morning, using the above mentioned BP Visco 2000 20W-50, and a WIX 51334 filter. I had a bit of an unexpected surprise at first, because the motor oil was cherry red in colour, almost like ATF or black tea. After asking around, apparently all variants of Visco motor oils are red in colour. I also added 10.6 oz. of Auto-RX with the 5.2 quarts of oil my engine calls for.

With that out the way, there has been a reduction in the amount of blue smoke I notice in my rearview, even though it hasn't disappeared completely. Then again, I'm only 92 miles into the first cleaning cycle. Will keep updating the tread as the mileage builds up. Thanks!

geeaea · Senior Member

Your valve guides may be shot. This may require new seals. I had this situation with my Mitsubishi 3.0 (92). Auto-rx cured 90% of the fogging effect of idling ..but prolonged idle would still produce a puff. Radical reduction though.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thank you for posting this. You hit the nail in the head...valve guides needed replacement. :)

brent olsen · Senior Member

Falcon LS wrote:

Thank you for posting this. You hit the nail in the head...valve guides needed replacement. :)

I was wondering if you drive this car hard, meaning you take the car up over 4000 rpm's

I have read that sometimes oil vapors are sucked into the intake manifold if the car is driven at high rpm's.

I would recommend that you take the PCV Valve hose off where it goes into your intake manifold, if you find any oil at the end of the hose where it goes into your intake manifold it might be a good idea to put a catch can on there.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

I rarely go over 3,500 rpm, Brent. Thanks for the tip on the PCV hose...Just checked the hose, and there is no oil at the end. :)

Falcon LS · Senior Member

I have a quick update on the application, and a rather quick question.

I am now 1,720 miles into the cleaning stage, and have noticed some substantial results. When I first start her up in the morning, the amount of blue smoke puffed out the tail pipe has significantly been reduced. Before, I could see it clearly lots of smoke my rearview, whereas now it's barely noticeable and very brief.

Secondly, oil consumption has now reduced to ¼ a quart per 1,000 miles. Previously, it was almost a full quart at the 2,000 mile mark...meaning ½ a quart at the 1,000 mile mark. This is a 50% reduction in oil consumption. If left to idle, with the oil pressure being lower, it now takes twice as long before blue smoke starts to make an appearance. Prior to this, I would start seeing blue smoke shortly after coming to a stop at a traffic light.

Thirdly, looking through my service history, my valve stem seals have been replaced three times...however the original valve guides have never been changed with 155,000 miles on them. This is obviously a mechanical problem, which Auto-Rx cannot fix. Auto-Rx has already done a tremendous job at reducing oil consumption and reducing the amount of blue smoke.

What I'd like to find out is this. I have decided to change my valve guides, along with my valve stem seals whilst I'm at it, as I near the end of the rinse cycle. Since the internals of my engine are now cleaned with ARX, I will make a switch to a Group IV synthetic with a maintenance dose of ARX. Would this ensure I get longer life out of my new set of seals and guides? Thank you.

Frank Miller · Guru

IMO would stay with a Group 111 Oil especially for obtaining longer seal life. Combined with Auto-Rx you have a good lubricant/protection package.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thanks for the recommendation, Frank! Any particular reason III is a better choice for longer seal life than IV though? :)

-- Edited by Falcon LS at 16:41, 2009-02-07

Frank Miller · Guru

Group 5 oils have a "complex additive package" not always conducive to long seal life.

Group 111 Oils have a "simple' additive package" easy on seal material.
3 Ounces of Auto-Rx would be maintenance dose.

If you want to use a group 5 oil use a ratio of 4 ounces of Auto-Rx per OCI.

With either Group5 or Group 111 Oil and Auto-Rx you can reasonably expect a 25 % increase in miles before you need an oil change.

-- Edited by Frank Miller at 08:46, 2009-02-08

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thank you, Frank. The oil I'm considering to use is Castrol Edge, which is a Group 4 oil with a POA base. The main reason behind my switch is to extend drain intervals, so would a Group 4 be a better alternative in this case?

Also, my engine's previously been treated twice with ARX and has had a maintenance dose ever since. This is the third application, aimed at reducing oil consumption. Using the same oil filter for two oil changes have shown some good UOA results, and since this isn't an engine cleaning application, could I possibly keep my oil filter for the rinse stage? I wouldn't mind changing it, but it's just something I've been doing since my second application. Thanks again!

Frank Miller · Guru

Oil burning issues will react better with a Group 111 Oil (no pao or ester additive packages) can you readily get group 111 oil ? It is the Auto-Rx that will make the major difference in achieving an extended OCI

Auto-Rx also has an additive package and as the oil additive package starts to degrade Auto-Rx will replenish.
example is the friction modifiers built into Auto-Rx.

Oil Burning is hard stop all our application instructions are for Group 111 Oil. Let me know if you can get this type of oil also no more Auto-Rx is necessary for final step in oil burning engines.

You might want to reread application for heavy oil burning.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thanks again, Frank. Group III oils are basically hydrocracked oils, and these are readily available. I've come to find out Castrol GTX here is in fact a Group III, and should make a good choice. :)

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Another quick question. Roughly 1,200 miles into the cleaning phase, the engine started making a clattering noise on dry starts in the morning. If I rev up the engine and increase the oil pressure, it goes away...only to come back when I drop the throttle. It goes away completely when the engine is slightly warmed up.

I'm not sure if this is from the oil I'm using (first time I try BP Visco) or a faulty drain back valve on the oil filter. Could the oil be causing this? Should I switch to Castrol GTX 20W-50 at my next oil change for the rinse phase in 1,000 miles? Or should I just stick with BP Visco? Thanks.

Edit: BP Visco has an API SJ rating, Castrol GTX has an API SL rating.

-- Edited by Falcon LS at 05:25, 2009-02-13

Richone · Senior Member

You could be right about the anti drain back valve. This coupled with the pretty thick oil, 20W50, it is likely taking alot longer than desireable to get oil to the top end. I have no idea where you operate this car, but possibly cold weather is not on your side with respect to morning cold starts.

With respect to your oil choice listed above, I would lean towards the Castrol SL rated oil, only because I have some experience with it. Not really familar with the Visco badge.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

I reckon its the ADB valve on the oil filter, and not the oil to be honest. If it was the oil, it would've happened the next day after the oil change and not 1,200 miles later. Then again, I'll stick with the BP Visco oil for the rinse stage (to avoid mixing chemistries) and run it for 3,500 miles, as per Frank's original instructions and see how it goes.

The SJ rating is from 1997 to the best of my knowledge and something in its chemistry is higher than that of other API ratings that followed in later years. Can't remember what it is off the top of my head, but later ratings are more catalytic converter friendly or something along the lines. Then again SM is the current standard since 2004...I was surprised to see the oil was rated API SJ. Still, it's a highly sought after oil in the Middle East.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Another update on the progress of this application. I've got another 850 miles to go before my cleaning phase comes to an end. The valve clattering turned out to be from the oil filter, which draws me to another conclusion I will get onto in a minute.

I spun off the WIX 51334 oil filter I had installed, and it was as heavy as a brick. This was much heavier than any previous filters I pulled off with my ARX applications. It turns out the filter was partially clogged, which caused valve clattering at low oil pressure on cold starts. I had a spare ACDelco PF1127 filter lying around, and I wrenched that on to filter for the next 850 miles before I change the oil and filter again. Now it's as smooth and quiet as ever when started up after sitting for over 8 hours.

BP Visco seems to be working very well with ARX. All my previous applications were with Motorcraft Synthetic Blend, and I think this isn't the best oil to use with an ARX application from personal experience.

gc427 · Newbie

Falcon LS wrote:

Also, my engine's previously been treated twice with ARX and has had a maintenance dose ever since. This is the third application, aimed at reducing oil consumption. Using the same oil filter for two oil changes have shown some good UOA results, and since this isn't an engine cleaning application, could I possibly keep my oil filter for the rinse stage? I wouldn't mind changing it, but it's just something I've been doing since my second application. Thanks again!

Oh my gosh!

I almost spit water all over my computer as I read this. Then reading how your oil filter was as heavy as a brick I laughed and laughed!

You should read the instructions and change the oil filter at the suggested intervals.

Glad to see the auto-rx working well for you!

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thank you. However, it seems you haven't understood my point. I have NOT kept the same filter for the clean and rinse stage. Each stage has seen a new oil filter installed. The filter was heavy following the end of one stage, not a combination of clean and rinse altogether.

As far as UOA results are concerned - if you go over to BITOG, you will see some people go to great lengths to retain the same filter for another oil change (with non-synthetic) oil. An oil filter costs peanuts, that isn't a concern. It's the improvements people have noticed by retaining their filter for another OCI.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Another quick question. The instructions mention an additional 1,000 - 3,000 miles may be required before oil consumption is significantly reduced or stopped altogether. During this period, would an API SM rated Pennzoil Long-Life Heavy Duty Engine Oil work fine? It states its a diesel engine oil, but also works in gas engines:

Recommended for both diesel and gasoline engines

-- Edited by Falcon LS at 17:15, 2009-03-09

dbdeland · Senior Member

Falcon LS,

Did you see the topic about Oils on the main page? It should inform you as to the oil you should use very informative topic.

Daryl Baines
Administrator

Falcon LS · Senior Member

If its about oil groupings, yes...that was an interesting read indeed. I believe Pennzoil HDEO is a Group III, but I will need to find that out for sure.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Correction. Pennzoil HDEO turned out to be a Group II oil.

Richone · Senior Member

When you replaced the clogged filter, that was likely in the bypass mode, did the cold start oil burning go away?

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Unfortunately not. It still puffed out some blue smoke at start-up (although MUCH less), which went away 2 seconds or so later.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Quick update on the application's progress. After a 3,500 mile rinse, I switched to a Group II oil and it's been there for 1,450 miles now. There's still a puff of blue smoke on morning starts, but I've noticed something else now.

If you drive the vehicle, switch off the engine and let it sit for 15 minutes or so and restart it, it puffs out a lot of blue smoke for a few seconds. You see a huge cloud in the rearview. There's also an increase in the amount of smoke on extended idle. Will this go away or will a forth application be necessary? If a forth is required, I think it'll be a better option to just replace those seals.

bmwtechguy · Senior Member

From my experience, either you have somewhat clogged up oil drainback holes that are located in the top of the cylinder head in an area that would allow oil to drain down through the head, then continuing down through hole in the block and finally down into the oil sump. If one or more of these holes become blocked, you will experience oil smoking during cold starts and ususally higher than normal oil consumption as well. My experience is that if a drainback hole is plugged shut, it may require getting in there and clearing it out manually.

If that is not the case and you simply have worn or leaking valve stem seals, I would then suggest that when you have done all you can with regular group II or non-synthetic oil, you might consider one of the high mileage oils to try. I had a very surprising experience with Maxlife 10W-40/20W-50. My consumption and leaks recently went from adding a quart every 200-300 miles to adding a quart every 2000 miles. This was one of the most dramatic improvements that I have ever experienced by simply changing oil type/brand. I was ready to pull the engine out and re-seal it and maybe replace crank bearings and the oil pickup tube while it was out, but now I am just gonna drive it.

BTW, this same car had a serious sludge problem when I got it about 130k miles ago. It was puffing oil smoke every time it was started due to plugged up rear cylinder drainback holes at rear of each bank on this chevy 5 liter. After carefully cleaning up the top of each head (under the valve covers), and the opening up of these plugged drainback holes, I eventually ran 3 or 4 full Auto-RX treatments over several years. It has been on regular dino for a couple years now with the Auto-Rx maintenance plan. The leaks and consumption were still bad mostly due to previous lack of oil changes and resulting wear on seals, not to mention the car has 264k miles on it now. Only when I finally tried this Maxlife high mileage oil recently did I get the dramatic improvements noted above.

click over to the sludged Avalon thread and read my thoughts over there if you have a minute or two...

-- Edited by bmwtechguy on Monday 6th of April 2009 09:19:47 PM

Falcon LS · Senior Member

Thank you for the response. I asked my mechanic to check the oil drain back holes today, and they are not blocked. Oil consumption has increased following treatment however, to a quart at 1,600 miles. Then again, it could do with the oil I am using.

Unfortunately, the only high mileage oil I can get my hands on is Quaker State High Mileage 10W-30 with Slick50. This oil has no API approval, and as a result I am reluctant to use it.

I'll have a read through the Avalon thread though, thanks for pointing that out. :)

brent olsen · Senior Member

I would not use any oil with Slick50 in it, period. I would not even put a bottle of Slick50 into my oil.