My 2008 Lexus had some smoke coming out of the tailpipe. It has 35,000 miles on it. I brought it to the dealer yesterday and was floored when they came back and said there was sludge in my engine, and the oil is burning right out of the car. It would be $6,000 to clean it and it is not covered under warranty, however if I can produce my oil change receipts they will see what they can do. The car is leased, and this is the last month of the lease. Aren't I lucky.
They have two receipts for oil changes when I brought it in to Lexus to have the oil changed. Of course who saves oil receipts, not me. I am going to contact the 10 minutes place that I went to to get receipts, but does not guarantee they will cover it.
Would the Auto-RX help with the problem? I am afraid to just put anything in the car. Should I try to use synthetic oil? Does anybody have any advise on what I should do?
Auto-Rx will remove sludge go to the web site and follow instructions I would change the filter at 500 miles continue doing this until cleaning has been completed you also will need to use non synthetic oil.
It is not logical that a engine with only 35,000 miles, and which has recieved at least some oil changes, would develop sludge issues. My question is WHY has this happened? Just cleaning up the mess is only half the battle. You really need to figure out the "why" as well.
I would lean on Toyota for help. At the very least you will need to make sure your PCV system is working as it should. A plugged up crankcase ventilation system is a one way ticket to sludge problems.
From here on out I would not extend your oil change intervals beyond 5,000 miles. Once you do get the sludge problem under control a maintenance dose of ARX will help prevent it from coming back.
-- Edited by TurboJim on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 04:05:09 PM
I have been asking the Lexus dealer the same question. This definitely should not have happended. They changed the oil at 5,000 miles and believe it has not been changed since which is not the case. So I need to give them receipts in order for them to even consider it being under warranty. However, it still leaves me with a big problem and I am afraid to drive the car so now I am paying for a car and not driving it.
Do you have any experience with Auto-RX? Will this help the problem? From now on I will be much more diligent with changing the oil every 3,000 miles. My lease is up on the car and I have no intention of buying it. But for me to put $6,000 into it and give it back is ridiculous.
ARX unfortunately is not a "quick fix" for sludge and contaminent build up problems. It would be unreasonable to expect ARX to solve this problem by the end of the month when your lease is up and you return the car.
Does this vehicle have a oil change reminder system? What does the owners manual suggest as far as oil change intervals? Most repair / oil change facilities keep records of their customers and the vehicles they service. Getting that data from them shouldn't be too difficult.
It sounds like you have maintained the vehicle reasonably. It is in Toyota / Lexus's best interest to resolve this sludge problem for you.
Many of us have been using ARX for years, under a variety of applications. If we didn't feel it was a worthwhile product we wouldn't continue to use and recomend it.
If you paid for these oil changes with a credit card then you could always call your card company and they can back track a year or two back.
It seems strange that a 2008 vehicle with the amount of miles on it that it would have a sludge problem, meaning those kind of miles do not add up too short trip driving.
Your mileage on the car comes out to about 60 miles a day if you got this car in January of 2008.
I do not see auto-rx clearing this problem up in 27 days or so.
He may get some use out of the fast track method. It won't get it all done, but will improve it. He should be able to put a good chunk of a thousand miles between now and then.
How often was the oil changed during these 35k miles? Was it every 5000 miles.....really? You will not get the kind of problem you have with oil changes every 5000 miles. Every 10k miles on regular oil?-maybe then you might start seeing some problems, but not major sludge issue you have already at 35k miles.
i think some oil changes were missed somewhere. Get the quickie lube to pull their records. Seems reasonable enough.
Auto-Rx may help your engine, but it may not totally get rid of the smoking. This was my experience on a really sludged up 2001 Avalon. It required to go in the engine eventually to clean things up the hard way due to the severe oil change neglect of the owner, combined with the known sludge issue of his engine year and type.
OP, If you go back to the quick change oil facility that did some of your oil changes, they should be able to show you the service intervals from their computer system. At least the Pennsoil quickly lubes would have this data stored about your car.
With proof of oil changes, I would put the blame on this motor being defective, with respect to either the PCV, or crank case ventilator. Is there a possibility of coolant entering the oiling system?
Based on your driving habits, you have time to do a fast track application. These deposits are obviously fairly fresh and should dissolve more readily, when compared to a high mileage motor where the deposits are backed on hard over time.
Brough all my receipts to Lexus and they will not cover the car under the warranty. They said sludge is NOT covered under the warranty. Auto-Rx has seemed to "help" but the car is still burning oil. Leasing company extended lease until Dec. 1st. I am so confused what to do.....buy the car. If I don't buy the car the leasing company will charge me for the sludge problem because they said it's my problem to take up warranty issues with lexus. Lexus does not own the car, the leasing company does. Lexus wants $6,000 to clean the engine out. This is a nightmare. It's a 2008 car. I now have 41,000 miles on it.
I am not sure if I should get a lawyer and fight them, or just hand it in and wait for them to come after me for the cleaning fee.....I am really in a bad place. Any suggestions???
Well, consult a lawyer about it. That's cheap enough. They can get the attention of the regional Lexus rep. If you can prove regular maintenance, then they've got nothing to stand on. They'll still whine and resist, but they know it's a loser.
I would continue to do the Auto-Rx treatments in an ongoing manner. This condition is serious ..as in severe ..so don't expect it to go away that quickly.
Again, if you can deal with the operational condition (as in "tolerate" it) then just keep going if you can extend the lease. You've paid most of the depreciation on the thing at this point. At some point the residual will be low enough to be less than the mandated costs. It all comes down to $$$ and cents.
By your description this car is otherwise providing adequate service. The smoking should continue to subside. If it ends up requiring valve seals, this is much less than a the alternative costs of getting rid of it.
I'm not saying this to keep you buying product. I really think that this will end up with a reasonable outcome if you can hang long enough. Dec 1 is not that far away, however. The dealer is going to charge the $6000 either way.
If you really want out from under it, then I would continue to clean it, change out the valve seals if necessary and trade at another dealership (not a Lexus). They'll find a clean engine with no smoking and you should get whatever value they assign such cars without a penalty for detractors.
-- Edited by geeaea on Wednesday 11th of November 2009 09:15:25 PM
I wonder if your also using synthetic oil ? e- mail me at auto_rx@bellsouth.net and give me status and oil your using and lets see if we can do something to ease your problem and confusion.
Well, Lexus refuses to honor warranty for car because oil was not changed by them. I did give them the receipts that I had. Leasing company wants the car back this week, or I have to buy it for $30,000. Engine is still sludged. Had mechanic take off valve cover, a lot of sludge. I am using regular motor oil, not synthetic. Car is still smoking and burning oil. I have quite the dilema....
We have done one RX treatment the quick sludge treatment...change filter every 500 miles, change oil at 1250, etc. Mechanic says the rings are shot. Pulled one valve cover and was very gooey and gummy, pasty. I would keep the car if the sludge problem was under control. It is a shame. The truck looks like it came out of the showroom. Would Auto-RX repair the rings and can it completely get rid of the sludge problem?
First of all, Lexus can't deny your warranty for not having them perform the oil changes. That's just a stall game in hoping you'll bite the $7000 tab.
Trust me, Maria ...they COUNT on your anxiety wanting to "Just make this go away - I'll throw money at it!!" type reaction. It's used all the time.
Talk to an attorney. The $30 for the consultation will be worth it. The leasing company should be assisting you with this. You may not pay your $6000-$7000 bill that they send you. It's in their interest to have the dealer fix this.
Now on to the sludge.
While it is surely possible, I find it unlikely that the rings are truly shot. That is such a rare condition. One that would probably require outright abuse to achieve in this day and age. If you were some kid street racer ..flogging it constantly ..processing many more gallons of fuel through it per mile than a normal driver ..redlining the engine almost full time ..THEN I'd reason that the rings were worn.
You would be consuming LOTS of oil.
I'd say that they're severely coked up with carbon deposits if compression is low.
When you say that it still smokes ...just when does it do it?
When starting? When coasting? When idling? All the time?
I do agree they are trying to get me to pay the repair costs. They will not put in writing the reason they are denying the claims, which in itself is suspicious.
Ironically enough, I was away for ten days and the car sat home. I drove the car today about 100 miles and no smoke. The car mostly smokes when I start it. Never smokes when it idles that I've seen and not when coasting. I noticed it mostly when I stop at a toll booth and and then took off I would get a puff of smoke. Or sometimes when I am on a major highway doing 60, once in a while I would get a puff of smoke. I can feel when I am driving almost like a hesitation, like it's backed up, and then a puff of smoke.
Today I drove it and it didn't smoke at all. This way also seem crazy but it seems when it rains out, it doesn't smoke. Today I drove all highway miles, even through tolls booths, and I got nothing.
I did contact a lemon law lawyer and he seems to think I have a case with them...talked to leasing company today and they don't want to no anything. They said they want me to buy the car, or they need to pick it up and they will probably put a new engine in it and send me the bill. Nice, huh?
So here we are.. we can buy the car for $29,000 not fixed or give it back to the leasing company and owe $3,000 for over mileage, plus whatever bill they are going to give me for a new engine, or give Lexus $6,000 to fix it...I amthe olnly one to get screwed in every situation...
One of the problems with these engines is that they run very hot and degrade the oil faster than in other brands of automobile. I found out recently that the synthetic oil company Amsoil, who also supplies high quality oil filters, has reeled back all recommendations for extended oil changes in all Toyotas. In fact, they quit selling their extended life oil filters #57,#9, and #10? for Toyotas/Lexus, showing that they are serious about NO EXTENDED OIL CHANGES for TOYOTA/Lexus! They are now only saying to go up to 7500 miles for Toyotas (Lexus), even on their best oils. For most other brands of automobile, they routinely recommend up to 15k miles for severe service, so that has been cut in half for Toyota/Lexus. This is not just for the known sludgers of yesteryear, the 3 liter V6 from 97-02. This if for NEW cars too, like your own. My GUESS is that people were driving the full 15k miles on Amsoil in these cars and Amsoil got tired of people trying to get them to pay for their sludged engines, (Amsoil warranty) and I'm sure Amsoil did buy some engines, at least.
This move by Amsoil says to me that there is real issue here that really gets bad if someone uses non-synthetic oil and then misses an oil change or two along the way.
I can tell you from firsthand experience working many hours on one of these sludged engines that the smoking is from the oil sitting in certain areas at the top of the engine because it cannot drain back through the partially or fully plugged drainback holes. The sludgey oil sitting against the valve stem seals, causes way too much oil to get down past the valve stems and into the combustion chamber. Your rings are not shot, BTW. When you do NOT see smoke, this means that oil may still be burning in higher than normal amounts, but your exhaust has a oil furnace in it called a catalytic converter that is very good about burning up oil smoke before it gets out the tailpipe, but does not start working well until it gets good and hot. Also all the oil burning causes the combustion chambers that are involved to start to collect deposits that glow and can cause pinging or detonation, similar to when you get a load of cheap gas.
Keep on with the treatment, or have someone go in and clean that mess up. This is a big job and could cost up to $3000 with no guarantee that all would be well when complete. I did the job for a BIL way too cheap, and then he did not pay the rest of the bill when his son totaled the car 2 weeks later.
I found 3 main oil drainback holes completely plugged shut on the back 3 cylinders. That was the main problem on the engine I worked on. I can only make an educated guess that is what is going on in your engine.
Here seems to be your basic options. Keeping in mind that you do need a car to replace it.
Turn in a $29000 car with an additional $3k for mileage ..(now it's a $26k car) plus the $6000 bill for Lexus to put in a new engine (probably $7k) ..which now makes it a $16k car when accounting for avoided losses.
Or ...$29k living with it as is and continuing remediation.
Or putting out $10k and have to buy/lease a new $500-$600/month in payments (whatever the figure is.
Alternative outcome, getting it tied up in litigation so the bills that they send you are put on hold. This will include something for the lawyer unless he can get the judgment to include his costs ..but Lexus will fold before that point ..leaving you with THAT bill.
Nothing is happening. It's been three weeks no smoke, and the oil level has remained the same. I am afraid to know what's going on.....if I am doing more damage, but it seems to be running fine. I am keeping my fingers crosses. I sent my paperwork to a lawyer to try to get the cleaning covered un the warranty.
Good move on the lawyer, Maria. The "running fine" aspect is just what it should be. This engine isn't "damaged". It has drain passages that are restricted and lots of material that has to be removed. You're fixing it for the few hundred dollar method vs. an assured $6000+ method.
Don't get stressed about this. It's easy for me to say, I know, but this will most likely work to your favor ..or at least a more favorable outcome than NOT doing anything. Right now the lawyer puts things in stall mode.
Here is my quick update on the car that I still own. It now has 111,000 miles on it. I have been driving it...some smoking here and there, seems like when I take an hour plus ride on a highway it will puff out some smoke. I need to put a quart of oil in it every two weeks.
I just took the car to a dealership for a trade. I was a nervous wreck and feel bad even trying to pass the car off on someone else, but my husband insisted I try. Well, they offered me a trade in for it...$10,000. I am supposed to pick my new car up tomorrow and am scared they are going to come back in a week or two and tell me to take the car back. It is going to a wholesaler.
is there anything I can do to the car to stop the it from smoking when they start? I have some more Auto Rx in the garage, not sure if I should pour a bottle in before I drop it off.
