Auto-Rx Customers Questions & Answers

MinivanMomma · Member

Final Analysis Was Mechanical Problems Not Sludge

Frank Miller · Guru

RE: Please help with sludged engine!

onthefritz8 · Veteran Member

You already know what it's going to cost to replace the engine so in my opinion you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying Auto-RX. Just make sure you change the oil filter quite often and also change the PCV valve.

geeaea · Senior Member

You don't even know if you need a new engine. You reported no severe noise or other driving anomalies.

Is the engine back together and is it running NOW?

If so, then order Auto-Rx and use it. If the oil light returns, change the filter. That should restore the pressure.

I'd consider doing the double dose (aka: Fast Track) over the longer service interval. Change filters at 500 mile intervals and top up.

With the $$ numbers involved, it's cheaper to rent a car for essential use while leaving your van idling through multiple tankfuls of fuel to allow enough "at temp" dwell time for Auto-Rx to work. Not that I'm suggesting that you do this, I'm just trying to give you the scale of economics involved in how much you could bend over backwards and still spend much less than the dealer offered remedies ..and without being without a car.

If you proceed, keep in mind that this will be a protracted process. Order product accordingly. I'd imagine that you're into at least 2 additional treatments beyond the initial treatment.

Since you've not strictly adhered to the maintenance schedule, there probably isn't any legal recourse for you. Normally, with most engines/manufacturers, the oil is the last thing wrong with an engine problem. With some Toyota/Lexus engines it's a design flaw that is very intolerant to even the slightest of neglect. Even perfectly maintained engines can sludge if the service is not ideal. The dealers still try and dodge the warranty claim. A warranty can't be denied simply because you didn't change the oil on time. The manufacturer has to prove that the untimely maintenance allowed the oil to degrade to the point of causing the failure. In your case, there's no way to say that the oil wasn't the reason for the problem ..even if the problem would have been there anyway with you doing it on time.

Try and have a good holiday!

-- Edited by geeaea on Thursday 24th of December 2009 08:13:32 PM

-- Edited by geeaea on Thursday 24th of December 2009 08:14:44 PM

johnoh · Veteran Member

With that engine, you need to follow the sludge application instructions on this site. Do a clean and rinse twice (11k miles and 8 oil filters total), then go on the maintenance program. Otherwise the sludge will come back. If you only have 60k the odds are good that ARx will fix your problem. Check out this guy also with 60k who has worse sludge (hopefully) than you.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281659

MinivanMomma · Member

Thanks for all the replies and advice. To answer a previous question, there has been no other evidence that anything was wrong apart from the light coming on. No unusual noises, no smoke, nothing like that.

I think we are going to go ahead and order the Auto RX and give it a shot. There's really nothing left to lose! I'll report back with our progress!

Maureen

PS--Does anyone have recommendations for an oil to use?

-- Edited by MinivanMomma on Saturday 26th of December 2009 03:46:08 PM

MinivanMomma · Member

OK...just ordered three bottles. Now should I follow the "Fast-Track" application, or the "Sludge" application?

My husband generally drives the car about 300 miles a week for work. He's a little leery driving it on I-95 like it is, though, for fear something will go wrong. Do you think it would be safe? We're going to try and get a second car soon, however, since I'm home with four kids all day, it makes things easier for me.

We're going to call the dealer on Monday morning, tell them to put the engine back exactly the way they found it, put fresh oil in, and change the filter and PCV valve. Then we'll add the Auto-RX and say our prayers!

Again, I really appreciate all your advice!

dbdeland · Senior Member

MinivanMomma,

The dealer informed you the engine was sludged I would use the sludged application.

johnoh · Veteran Member

Between the oil change and adding autorx I would guess that oil light will go off pretty quickly

TurboJim · Moderator

My preference would be the sludge application.

onthefritz8 · Veteran Member

To answer your other question I would think it would be in your best interest to let your husband drive the Toyota as he will put more miles on it at highway speeds and would probably assist in cleaning the engine better. Just to be on the safe side he should probably have a cell phone and maybe AAA and 2 or 3 quarts of oil. I don't think it would be a great idea in my opinion to be using a car that could possibly cause problems with 4 children in the car. That could possibly be a nightmare.

RichG · Veteran Member

The Auto-Rx will perform better running at highway speeds. The engine temperature has alot to do with the flow of the oil and Auto-Rx. If it is used for short commutes it will not work as expected. I don't think there will be much of a catastrophic problem with the sludge. Just change the oil filter whenever the oil pressure is out of whack or 500 miles goes by for the first 2,000 miles or so.

Falcon LS · Senior Member

MinivanMomma wrote:

PS--Does anyone have recommendations for an oil to use?

I would use Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, or better yet Pennzoil Platinum. Just make sure you get the recommended viscosity...should be 5W-20 or 5W-30.

-- Edited by Falcon LS on Monday 28th of December 2009 10:18:57 AM

johnoh · Veteran Member

the correct viscosity should be printed on your oil cap (that you twist off to in order to put in new oil)

geeaea · Senior Member

The 2005 Sienna spec's 5w-30 for all temps in the US market.

MinivanMomma · Member

My Auto-RX arrived today! We'll be picking up the van by this weekend, and working on reviving her!

Wish us luck!

I'll report back as we go!

-- Edited by MinivanMomma on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 11:20:17 AM

geeaea · Senior Member

Yes, please do keep us updated.

MinivanMomma · Member

We are hoping to pick up the van from the dealer today; currently waiting to hear back from them to confirm that it was already put back together or not and if not, what exactly was taken apart (so we can say what to replace as they put it back together, such as a new oil filter and leave it 1 quart shy of 5 quarts for the auto-rx).

We were given some suggestions by others on things we should do before using auto-rx and putting on the required miles. I am hoping someone can shed some light regarding their necessity or if they are good.

The first suggestion was that we purchase a can of heavy duty motor flush from the auto parts place and do one of the quick 5-15m flushes in order to get as much of the loose stuff out before using auto-rx and putting the miles on as the less sludge in the engine to start with, the better. Yet knowing that they break apart sludge which can cause new problems, I would assume these are a huge no except for a last ditch effort.

The second suggestion was before using auto-rx we should have the oil pan removed, all visible sludge removed a shop remove the oil pan and manually remove all sludge they can from there and change the oil pickup screen while there.

Also depending on what may or not be apart (I doubt anything is apart at this time) is there anything anyone suggests having replaced as they reassemble it?

Thanks!

Oh one last thing, we are right in assuming that the auto-rx goes in place of oil and not in addition to, right? For example, if the engine uses 5q of oil, we don't use 5qts of oil + 1 bottle (12 oz) of auto-rx but we use use 4q 20oz of oil + 1 bottle (12 oz) of auto-rx to equal 5q total.

-- Edited by MinivanMomma on Saturday 9th of January 2010 02:41:33 PM

TurboJim · Moderator

If the oil pump pick-up screen has been cleaned then I think you are good to go. Even if the oil level is at the full mark on the dipstick when you get the vehicle back 12 additonal ounces isn't going to harm anything.

johnoh · Veteran Member

The motor flush is not likely to cause any issues and once you change the oil you'll be adding autorx which will help further break down any sludge. I do not see this as much of a risk, nor is it really a necessity. Seafoam is a product you can enter into the engine through the brake booster line, and it works well as a flush.

You really can't go wrong by just starting your autorx treatment now without investing any further money. Two applications and rinses will clean things up a lot, including the pan.

onthefritz8 · Veteran Member

Pouring Seafoam into the brake booster line will not get into the engine oil.

MinivanMomma · Member

The dealership just called and said that the van is back together and we can pick it up whenever. So I doubt they even put on a clean oil filter let alone cleaned the oil uptake screen.

Should I even bother paying them to do an oil change to get a new filter on? What about asking them to drop the oil pan and clean out the sludge from the oil pan and oil uptake screen? Worth it or should we just head up, drop in the ARX and drive out?

Thanks

johnoh · Veteran Member

To be more specific than my previous post, you do not pour anything into the brake booster line.

You remove the brake booster line from the brake booster, stick it into a seafoam can and run the engine for 10-15 seconds. This sucks the seafoam directly into the engine

Here is a video of it, although this guy runs the engine way too long when sucking in the seafoam.

http://www.videojug.com/webvideo/how-to-use-sea-foam-through-the-brake-booster

-- Edited by johnoh on Saturday 9th of January 2010 04:29:37 PM

Frank Miller · Guru

Sorry this board does not let somebody push solvent technology 1-Because it is dangerous 2-It does not work 3- It is for cleaning fuel injectors and not oil lubricated internal engine parts. Solvents thin out the viscosity of the host oil.

-- Edited by Frank Miller on Sunday 10th of January 2010 11:06:22 AM

bmwtechguy · Senior Member

I do not recommend engine flushes since they can quickly loosen large quantities of sludge material that can soon clog up an already somewhat clogged oil pick-up screen, blocking off the flow of oil to the pump, which then will turn your oil pressure light on, letting you know that your engine is not being lubricated. It is much safer to use Auto-Rx only and let it slowly and methodically clean away the sludge and carbon bit by bit. Your engine is not already to the point of having visible oil smoke and excessive oil consumption, so that itself is a good sign that things can be reversed. I have confidence that the Auto-Rx will get the job done by itself. After you get done with a couple treatments, I strongly suggest you put that engine on the maintenance dose program to keep the sludge away, along with other benefits. And of course, become more "religious" about regular oil changes.

-- Edited by bmwtechguy on Sunday 10th of January 2010 03:19:16 PM

geeaea · Senior Member

Well, for intake manifold cleaning, Seafoam does a decent job. I'd want to wait until she's don't with Auto-Rx before moving down that road. Now if the PCV tract (valve/hose/port) is fouled, then some cleaning will need to be done to get that working properly.

MinivanMomma · Member

Everyone, thanks for the discussion and suggestions. We will not use a flush and will not waste more money having the dealer clean out the oil uptake screen.

bmwtechguy, you are correct there is no smoke nor oil consumption. The only thing at this time is it rides a little rough and throws off the following error codes:

P0012: Camshaft Position "A" - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0018: Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlatiin (Bank 2 Sensor A)
P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306: Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected.

Today we will be picking it up, and unless someone suggests we have the dealer change the oil, before adding auto-rx, we will be driving it to the closest quick-lube/jiffy lube tog et a quick oil change (for a new filter and fresh oil). Then we will add auto-rx and get some miles on it.

AWomanByDesign · Newbie

Hey MinivanMomma,

I will be doing the same with my VW touareg. I'm a first time user, please cross your fingers and pray for me. My check engine light won't go off, after $1000 with the dealer I'm told I have an extreme case of sludge. So I'm going to give Auto-Rx at try at the problem.

Wishing you luck as well.

Tina

Frank Miller · Guru

Follow the application instructions read the FAQ and all will be well.

AWomanByDesign · Newbie

Thanks Frank. Will do and will keep you updated on my progress.

MinivanMomma · Member

Ok, it officially begins.

We picked the van up from the dealer, took it to the closest Jiffy Lube for an oil change. First thing we found out is that the coolant was low. Now we know for a fact it wasn't when it went to the dealership (we specifically checked all fluids) which means they didn't put it all back in when they were "diagnosing" the problem.

Anyhow, with 59,790 miles on the odometer, the Auto-RX has been added and the cleaning phase has begun. JiffyLube was kind enough to try and reset the lights for us, but the only one they got off was the "check engine" light. Oil, VSC and TRAC OFF lights are still on, but on a positive note, the check engine light has not come back one and upon arrival at home, the mileage is 59,795.

5 down, 2995 to go.

@Tina - Best of luck. Our fingers are crossed.

onthefritz8 · Veteran Member

I'm assuming that you must go to this Jiffy Lube on a regular basis. Since your engine is sludged it would be in your best interest to see if they could just change the oil filter probably at least every 1,000 miles for the first clean and rinse. Possibly for the second clean and rinse. This sludge is going to plug your oil filters probably very quickly. As always suggested, get your PCV valve replaced and make sure it's working correctly and not plugged in the valve cover.

MinivanMomma · Member

Well, my husband drove the van to work today. He got a glimmer of hope when he first started the car, because the oil light wasn't on. However, it did come back on, as well as the check engine light.

He called me when he was almost at work because the car stalled on him. He did get it going again pretty quickly, although he commented on the car smelling of eggs now.

When he did get to work (about 30 miles away), he checked the oil, only to find that there was almost none in there! (He'll probably be on here in a bit to detail his episode, he posts under this name as well)

I looked in the space where the van was parked, there was a little bit of oil on the ground, but not much at all.

So now I will have to drive down there and pick him up after work, he's not sure he wants to drive the van home now. The van leaked NO oil before taking it in for service. Of course, now that the sludge is a matter of record, I'm sure the warranty will not cover any additional issues that may pop up...

I'm very frustrated right now. Essentially, that entire bottle of Auto-RX is now gone as well....

Frank Miller · Guru

The Auto-Rx is on your internal engine parts. (probably helped save your engine with no oil from burning up)

Suggestion go to a parts store and buy your own oil and use it rather than trusting somebody else to do the oil change.

Your post above tells me you had no oil in this engine. There is no major loss on your driveway and 30 miles of driving would be hard put to use all your oil reserve.

If for some reason adding oil is something you want someone else to do stand there and make sure they do it.

MinivanMomma · Member

That's the crazy part! My husband WATCHED the guys at Jiffy Lube do the oil change last night!!

The only thing that scares me about doing the oil changes ourselves is the filter. My brother came to do an oil change for me about a year ago. The filter broke as he was taking it off, and he could NOT get the rest of it off. He spent a few hours on it, and it eventually had to get towed to the mechanic, so he could do the oil change....

Frank Miller · Guru

The filter thats on there is presumably new (JiffyLube) your husband saw them change the oil doubtful he could see how they reinstalled the drain plug. Solution go somewhere else and have them check plug and put oil in your engine. (Shell Service center-Goodyear) stay away from the chains who make there money on add on's.

If i am reading your post correctly the current filter is supposed to be new (get that checked) you surely have had your share of problems.

Richone · Senior Member

There is a possibility that the return drain from the top end of the motor is partially restricted, which would cause the oil to take a longer time to return to the oil pan. If your husband checked the oil level immediately after arriving to work, perhaps he didn't allow enough time for the oil in the top end of the motor to drain back down in the pan to get a proper reading.

MinivanMomma · Member

Yes, the filter is supposed to be new. My husband had the same thought with the drain plug. He and a coworker are going to go out at lunch, get some oil and check out the plug situation.

Honestly, I'm ready for a nervous breakdown over all this. Toyotas are supposed to go forever!!!

Tombo · Member

I am MiniVanMamma's husband. Here is the full ordeal.

Last Night

After starting the car at the dealership it sounded like hell was was idling much higher than normal for it being a cold start. We rove it to the nearest Jiffy Lube where I *watched* them do the oil change specifically to make sure the auto-rx went in. Not only that once they were done they even let the engine run a few minutes to let the auto-rx mix with the oil. They also reset the check engine light for me.

When I got in the van the odometer was at 59,790. We has some heavy traffic at first due to an accident but then made our way to the highway and got home with 59,799 miles on the engine. So we got a good 7-8 highway miles on it right after the auto-rx was put in.

This Morning

This morning I went out to start the car, when I started it the oil light was on but it sounded much better than when I started it last night. A few seconds into the startup, the check engine light flashed and came back on but no big deal.

Then a heard a quick throaty sound and the oil light went off. Nice! Then a tapping started (sounded like a cross between a valve tap and a rod knock). I shut the engine off and restarted it was gone and the car was running like a champ. A few minutes later the oil light came back on (as the car finished warming up).

I drive to work, about 30 miles and it ran smooth. Actually far better than last night. As I approached my exit there was a little drop in speed, then another then the RPMs hit zero and I was stalled. I pulled off to the shoulder. Waited a few minutes and attempted to start back up.

It was running like a dying dog about to keel over any second; real rough, real slow, very low idle RPMs it sounded as if I was lucky to have 2 cylinders going. I also got a strong smell of eggs. Immediately I thought Catalytic converter but I am not sure that could cause the thing to run so horribly. I figured I was only about a mile or so from work, so I babied it the rest of the way.

I looked under the car while it was running and the catalytic converter was shaking a bit but that could be normal anyways. I then checked the oil and it was BONE DRY. I watched Jiffy Lube put the oil in and check it after, so I visibly saw that there was oil in the vehicle last night and given the description of any oil where I was parked overnight, I can only assume there was oil in it this morning when I left because any oil my wife saw on the ground could easily have been the junk that jiffy lube spilled dripping off.

So that means I could have only lost the oil on the way and as someone else stated it is pretty impossible to burn off that much oil in 30 miles. My only guess would be that they didn't put the oil plug in correctly and it blew out on the way to work or its leaking from the oil filter area. I have no clue yet and work isn't the ideal place to try and get under the care although we thought about riding it up a curb to get some elevation to take a look. At lunch a buddy and I are going to pick up some oil and dump it in to see if we can see where it is leaking from.

Got to love it :)

RichG · Veteran Member

Sometimes the oil filter gaskets do stick to the engine. And gasket-to-gasket seals are not enough to keep the pressurized oil from leaking out rather quickly. Check that and the oil drain for any signs of leaks.

The sludge breaking apart may have clogged up passages and there is a large quantity of oil sitting in the top half of the engine slowly trickling back down into the pan or not at all. I have seen it happen before and only realized it because oil was seeping pretty badly through the valve cover gasket.

It is likely, that since you ran it with no oil and had it stall that there has been damage to the internal parts.

Tombo · Member

Rich,

With that last scenario you described (all the pressurized oil stuck in the top of the engine) would it be safe to assume that if I start dumping oil into it, it will not go anywhere and eventually be visible where I pour in the oil?

I also want to point out that despite being out of oil, the engine didn't get overly hot based on the temperature gauge. The rate things are going I am sure that's broke too LOL

-- Edited by Tombo on Tuesday 12th of January 2010 11:43:31 AM

johnoh · Veteran Member

If indeed the oil change guys did their job correctly, this could be a case of autorx loosening a hunk of sludge that was wedged between a seal and the engine, and now that its gone you have a leak.

bigpav7 · Member

see if you can crawl under the car and look at the undercarriage. If the plug wasn't installed correctly and the oil leaked out while you were driving, you will see signs of it all over the bottom/rear of the car. if the undercarriage is clean/dry, than it probably is a clogged up oil passage. Either way, I wouldnt really drive it until you can figure out where the oil went/is...

On a side note, I was under the impression that ARX shouldn't be able to dislodge large chunks of sludge like that. I mean the car was only driven for 40 miles or so. Isn't the cleaning supposed to be gradual?

Tombo · Member

There really isn't a whole lot of clearance to get under the vehicle without something to get it off the ground. Even kids would have a hard pressed time trying to get underneath as there is really not much clearance.

At lunch I picked up 5 qt of oil and put it in and started it up just to see if there was any visible leaks. Once the oil got through the engine it sounded a lot better but not like it did before. There is now a definitive knock in the engine albeit a muffled dull knock. It reminded me of the time we replaced a factory cam with a much beefier cam that gave the engine a nice slow paced thud sound.

We saw no visible leaks nor traces of any present leaking although there does appear to be some oil around that oil filter.

MinivanMomma · Member

It doesn't look good. Apparently, the oil is leaking out of the tailpipe. Tombo will be on shortly to update properly. Our mechanic advised against driving it at all...

Frank Miller · Guru

Auto-Rx liquifies contaminants including sludge located on the internals of the engine. This is beginning to look like a blown seal (located outside the engine ) if so its a mechanical problem, oil leaking from the tailpipe would indicate seal located between engine and transmission is in need of immeadiate replacement.

MinivanMomma · Member

Frank, that's what our mechanic said. Something about it possibly being an O ring seal (not that I know what that is! LOL)

Now we're going to have to get it towed the 30 miles back from his office....

Wonder if I can get a refund on this useless warranty? biggrin

Richone · Senior Member

Honestly, in 30 miles Auto-Rx would not have an effect on sludging issues, positive or negative. For quart(s) of oil to be flushed out the tailpipe is unthinkable beyond a serious mechanical issue. That oil would have to pass through a cataylitic convertor at extemely high temperatures. In the thirty miles driven there would have been a huge cloud of smoke bellowing out the tailpipe.

The only way that I could envision this happening would be a motor so severely sludged that all of the oil pumped up to the top end of the motor was unable to drain back down to the pan. All of this oil would have had to be ingested into the combustion chamber and passed through the exhaust valve to make it into the exhaust manifolds, cat and ultimately the muffler and tailpipe.

This is a case of a motor sludged beyond repair or a mechanical issue that occured upon reassembling the motor.

Tombo · Member

After getting the oil at lunch and not being able to find a leak, I called my regular mechanic and an old high school classmate who is a mechanic. They both suggested that I check the tailpipe for oil. I was a bit shocked but entertained the notion.

As I got out there to check, I never even had to stick a finger up the tailpipe because I'll be damned if I swear that I didn't see oil on the ground under the tailpipe. Yes! It was fresh oil and I touched it to be sure. Somehow the oil leaked out of my tailpipe /boggle.

They mentioned that sometimes leaky valve seals or o-ring gaskets can cause oil to get into the exhaust and come out the tailpipe. I was also told that the smell of eggs could have been the bearings burning out.

Someone expressed concern that auto-rx may have done this. I find it practically impossible for auto-rx to have caused this. I don't let that deter you.

Frankly with there being no coolant in the engine after getting it from the dealer, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership didn't sabotage it and screw up putting it back together. However, I don't know how to prove it. Naturally they will just cite sludge. Yet if the motor was sludged beyond repair, there would have been much worse symptoms before hand I am sure.

At this point I am not sure there is much of an option other than to replace the engine. I certainly will not let the dealership touch it especially since my mechanic quoted me a significantly better deal.

The dealership wanted 4k + tax to put in a used engine with 79k miles on it and a 30 day warranty with the engine. My mechanic wants $2850 + tax for a used engine with 30-40k and it comes with a 101 day warranty as well. Heck for a little more than what the dealer wanted I could get a rebuilt Jasper engine that comes with a 3 year, 85k mile warranty.

-- Edited by Tombo on Tuesday 12th of January 2010 06:56:57 PM

Tombo · Member

I was also told that I shouldn't even attempt to drive it home at this point because I may cause damage to the transmission or catalytic converter and just cause more of a headache.

My thought is after getting the engine replaced make it look all nice and shiney then take it to a Toyota dealership and trade it in for a non-Toyota used car.