Subject: Passat 1.8T Frank, a friend recommended using Auto-RX. My passat is suffering from the now well-known sludge issue (130k miles, 2002 turbo 1.8T). Dont have any problems yet other than a one-time low oil pressure alarm a while ago. I have attached a picture looking in the oil cap sideways. I think it is pretty clear.
I would like to try Auto-RX over the next few months and then bring it to a mechanic to have the oilpump changed and the screen cleaned. However, I am not sure what oil to put in during the application as I have a turbo charger on it. Also, VW is recommending to use only synthetic 0W40, I suppose because of this problem. Am I understanding this correctly that you suggest a mineral oil of similar viscosity to be used for a few thousand miles ? won't that "sludge up" the engine more ? Thank you. Thomas.
Perhaps we can understand why your motor has the hard type oiling system deposits by looking at the oil change intervals that this motor has seen over the last 8 years or so. Group IV full synthetic oils are the most resistant to breaking down from heat. With that said the 0W40 suggested motor oil has been loosing ground in keeping the internals of this motor clean. It is fairly well documented that these small displacement turbo charged motors are pretty darn tough on oil. In my opinion, even running a full synthetic, oil change intervals should never exceed 4500-5000 miles maximum. The turbo charger contributes to sludge prone tendencies from two angles. First off, the turbo operates off of exhaust gases, which tends to really super heat the oil that passes through the turbo unit. Secondly, the boost you get from the turbo, by its very nature of forcing greater air fuel mix down through the intake lends itself to higher levels of blow by gasses into the crankcase. These are the two greatest contributors of shortened oil life service. So even running the best oils with respect to resistance to heat, you still have the blow by gasses to contend with, and running extended oil change intervals is a loosing battle.
These motors seem to circulate spent oil deposits that tend to collect in the bottom of the oil pan. In many cases these deposits can accumulate to the point whereby the oil pick up screen gets clogged or semi blinded. I am not sure of your 2002 model, but some of these 1.8T motors, in order to change out the oil, it is required to suck out the oil through the top of the dip stick tube. This is very ineffective when compared to a more conventional drain plug in the oil pan. As we all know in the drain plug design the last out of the pan is always the dirtiest oil. Drawing out through the dip stick tube will leave a good majority of the spent oil still sitting in the bottom of the pan. And this will accumulate over time.
To answer your question about running mineral oil or conventional oil making the situation worse, that would be true if you were running it for intervals in the 4000 to 7000 mile range. My suggestion would be to run a group III oil for the cleaning application and rinse cycles. Group III oils are more highly refined mineral oil and are much better suited for this motor than a group II cheapy conventional oil. Castrol makes such a product as well as Pennzoil Platinum. You will find these both in a 5W40 grade. These oils will hold up fine for running short 3000 mile oil change intervals which are recommended for the clean and rinse phases of running an Auto-Rx application. In my estimation you would want to run two cleaning and rinse cycles. In other words, run a full bottle with a fresh change of group III oil with Auto-Rx installed for 3000 miles. Then run a rinse phase with fresh group III installed for 3000 miles, no auto-rx addition for the rinse. Then repeat the process a second time. This will get your motor cleaned up. You can make your decision on dropping the pan after the first full application of one cleaning phase and one rinse. I would look at the oil on the dipstick perhaps 500 miles into the rinse phase. If this oil is badly darkened or black after only 500 miles of the initial rinse, then I would assume that the oil pan is loaded with undesirable contaminants and consider dropping the pan and hand cleaning the pan as well as the pick-up screen.
Once you have got this motor cleaned up. And you may not need to drop the pan, I would suggest that you return to the full synthetic 0W40 for each oil change, but run the maintenance dose of 3 fluid ounces total with each oil change and keep the change interval at 4500 to 5000 miles.
I hope this is helpful to you. Please fire back any questions that you may have.
Best Regards,
Rich Eklund Auto-Rx Worldwide, Inc. Chemical Consultant
Thanks ! This was very helpful. Indeed, I was changing the oil through the dip stick. From now on, and before the Auto-Rx application, I will do the changes the old fashion way. For the first few years, VW was doing the oil changes and I believe they used cheap stuff. Someone was suggesting installing an additional oil cooling loop. I don't even know if I may have this already with the 1.8T, but what do you think about that ?
Subject: Passat 1.8T Frank, a friend recommended using Auto-RX. My passat is suffering from the now well-known sludge issue (130k miles, 2002 turbo 1.8T). Dont have any problems yet other than a one-time low oil pressure alarm a while ago. I have attached a picture looking in the oil cap sideways. I think it is pretty clear.
I would like to try Auto-RX over the next few months and then bring it to a mechanic to have the oilpump changed and the screen cleaned. However, I am not sure what oil to put in during the application as I have a turbo charger on it. Also, VW is recommending to use only synthetic 0W40, I suppose because of this problem. Am I understanding this correctly that you suggest a mineral oil of similar viscosity to be used for a few thousand miles ? won't that "sludge up" the engine more ? Thank you. Thomas.
If you follow the sludge application instructions for two cleaning cycles you will be good to go, and may have no need to touch the oil pump or screen.
In hot, sludge-prone engines any oil tends to get "cooked" into sludge over the period of the Oil Change Interval (OCI) and this happens especially if you use long OCIs, and/or do not keep the oil level at the full mark. Adding an additional oil cooling loop will give you some protection against this, but a cheaper solution that is more effective is to move to shorter OCIs. If you change your own oil, just use a cheap synthetic (i.e a group III oil) plus an autorx maintenance dose and change the oil every 3000 miles. Or like Rich said above, go with a Group IV if you want but do not get too ****y on extending the OCI too far
Think of it this way - if you use a 7500 mile OCI, Group IV outperforms Group II and III oils every time. But if you use a 3000 mile OCI, there is only a minimal difference between them other than the fact that autorx works best with Group II and III. Some would say that 3000 miles is too often to change your oil, and I would agree if we were talking about a car with less miles and no sludge history.
Group II - cheapest oil at the store Group III - cheapest oil at the store with the word "synthetic" on it Group IV - most expensive oil at the store, and the only true synthetic.
"I have attached a picture looking in the oil cap sideways. I think it is pretty clear."
You would need to pull the valve cover to really see what is going on. There is a black plastic cover under the oil fill area so you can not view the engine's valve train this way.
"With that said the 0W40 suggested motor oil has been loosing ground in keeping the internals of this motor clean."
This has been my experience, even with OCI of 5,000 miles or less.
"I am not sure of your 2002 model, but some of these 1.8T motors, in order to change out the oil, it is required to suck out the oil through the top of the dip stick tube."
Some owners use an oil extractor for convenience but the there is a oil drain plug. To access the oil drain plug the plastic belly pan must be removed first.
"Someone was suggesting installing an additional oil cooling loop. I don't even know if I may have this already with the 1.8T, but what do you think about that ? "
Your engine has a oil cooler just below where the oil filter is mounted.
"If you follow the sludge application instructions for two cleaning cycles you will be good to go, and may have no need to touch the oil pump or screen."
Aside from physically dropping the pan hooking up a oil pressure gauge should tell you if the oil pump pick-up screen is clogged or not.
"Some would say that 3000 miles is too often to change your oil, and I would agree if we were talking about a car with less miles and no sludge history."
It's your choice if would like to continue using a VW approved oil, such as Mobil 1 0W-40. It's VW's recomendation that the oil change interval be no more than 5,000 miles. Personally I think 3,000 miles would be a safer bet to avoid sludge in the future.
One thing you can do to protect yourself from sludge is add more oil to the system via a larger oil filter. Here are some options: Purolator L40316. Wix 51333 / Napa Gold 1333.
The PCV system on these engines is very complex and should be serviced on a regular basis. A PCV system that is not working correctly can lead to sludge in a hurry.
You definitely want to use the larger diesel oil filter on these 1.8T engines. I own both a 2001 GTI 1.8T with 143k as well as a 2005 Audi 1.8T with 76k and I use them on both. They are about twice the size of the original smaller filter used on the early 1.8T engines. Also, you definitely want to take the time to drop the belly pan and change your oil the proper way by removing the drain plug. You can use an oil change interval of 5-10k with no problems if you use a high quality synthetic oil. Castrol Edge is my latest favorite synthetic.
Finally, if you have experienced a clogged screen, you should really spend the time to drop your oil pan and clean out the pickup screen before you start your ARX treatment. This will ensure that you are not starving your engine for oil.
Oh yeah, I have been using regular Castrol GTX 5W30 with my ARX treatment in my GTI. My current cycle has 3,200 miles on the oil and it still has a golden color. I am going to run it a bit longer before changing it out. I chose GTX because I wanted to ensure that the oil would not interfere with the esters in the ARX. For the rinse cycle I am going to switch to Castrol Syntech 5W40 as it is a VW502 approved oil that is also a Group III oil that will not interfere with the ARX. After the rinse I will switch to Castrol Edge as it is their top shelf synthetic product. Even though it is not yet VW502 approved, a few guys have had samples analyzed by Blackstone with favorable results. This oil performs at least as good as the original OEM spec German Castrol.
-- Edited by cycloxer on Wednesday 7th of April 2010 10:16:02 PM
